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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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1＃ Go ToSo i'm writing this post due to few weeks research, which is based from arena/ti/ranked/spacetime/etc.
I believe the secondary stats don't work properly.
Example, my main has 4.2k crit, 4.1k combo. Again, i repeat, this is being observed through 3-4 weeks.
Crit with my main is virtually impossible. It happens maybe once in 10 attacks. Same works with combo. My main, with these stats, is comboing like, never.
I brought different players for weeks (example, player A was 1 week with me in TI, player B was second week, etc) and i compared their secondary stats.
Player A which had 2.1k crit was critting about 64% more (yeah, i'm an engineer. i calculated. patiently.) while i was critting about 12% of the time.
Player B which had 3k crit was critting about 52% more.
Player C which had 1.8k crit was critting about 47% more.
Same goes with combo.
Player A - 2.7k combo had about 3 more combo starts.
Player B - 3.1k combo had about 4 more combo starts.
Player C - 2.0k combo had about 3 more combo starts.
Is it possible that secondary stats above some point are broken ? Guild members that were testing it with me couldn't believe that this is happening with my stats.
The only stat that works is iniative. with my 4.4k, i actually was going first, lol.
Any testing or explanation for this ?
Thanks,
regards,
Kej
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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Did all of you use the same ninjas and talents?
Some ninjas are more likely to combo than others, some abilities increase crit rate. I'm not entirely sure if any ninja is inherently more likely to crit than others, but it can be possible on certain ninjas that depends on more crit.
So you have to ensure you are comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
Also, if you were comparing apples to apples(or recollect data to make it so) what is the size of your data collection and therefore the standard deviation? What is the alpha value of your observation?
On a side note, I'm not entirely sure if there is a "level suppression" sort of effect in game, so also ensure that your apples are all the same level (both main and ninja).
Edit: While NPC targets are a good start, as they are likely to have the same stat, there might be a difference between elite(named) units in a TI and regular(generic) units. So perhaps seperate those results as well. In case of brohters, for example, sasuke, itachi and deidara needs to be tracked seperately from the rest of the "stuff"(whom I assume have the same secondary stat, should be a safe enough assumption)
This post was last edited by PraiseLuka at 2017-5-8 12:55 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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Yeah, same ninjas, same players, same talents.
Apples to Apples comparison.
Size of data : 4 weeks (120 TI's +/- more which i didn't follow when i just auto helped others), 30 arena matches (you can't choose opponents, so arena is the least viable stat), 90 ranked battles, even survival trial.
Either I'm the master of bad rng, or these stats are indeed broken and not workin properly. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- kejmo On 2017-05-09 18:32:16
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Yeah, same ninjas, same players, same talents.
Apples to Apples comparison.
Size of data : 4 weeks (120 TI's +/- more which i didn't follow when i just auto helped others), 30 arena matches (you can't choose opponents, so arena is the least viable stat), 90 ranked battles, even survival trial.
Either I'm the master of bad rng, or these stats are indeed broken and not workin properly.
In arena your secondary stats are 0, only initiative is calculated in but as a separate number. So if you considered it too in your calculations you made a big mistake. This post was last edited by ayr***@yahoo.com at 2017-5-9 18:44 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- Zelgadis~ On 2017-05-09 18:43:11
- In arena your secondary stats are 0, only initiative is calculated in but as a separate number. So if you considered it too in your calculations you made a big mistake. This post was last edited by ayr***@yahoo.com at 2017-5-9 18:44
Correct.
Initiative and Ninja's growth (Stars) are calculated when it comes to Arena.
To add on. TI/Arena are not the better places to conduct an experiment as enemies can and will have a different set of values. PVP scenarios strictly are the way to go(Outside of Arena)
But to answer the question of the thread.
Yes, Secondary stats are working as intended. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- kejmo On 2017-05-09 18:32:16
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Yeah, same ninjas, same players, same talents.
Apples to Apples comparison.
Size of data : 4 weeks (120 TI's +/- more which i didn't follow when i just auto helped others), 30 arena matches (you can't choose opponents, so arena is the least viable stat), 90 ranked battles, even survival trial.
Either I'm the master of bad rng, or these stats are indeed broken and not workin properly.
Let me clarify that same ninja and talent part a little.
I'm not talking about whether you have always been using the same thing. I'm asking if you and all the OTHER people have the exact same team compared with each other. So if you use water main + A, B, C, they need to be using water main + A, B, C as well, not lightning + A, D, E or whatever.
Guess both the question and the answer can be taken either way (due to the fact that the word "you" can be singular and plural)
I seriously doubt ranked battle can be viable for this data collection, since it would be rare as heck for two people to have the exact same ranked teams, so there almost is certainly some difference in buffs etc on the field. So TI is about the only possible data source. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- Posts: 73
Yes, the observation has been made with same players which haven't changed spec for like ages (osoi light main). I have a bromance lvl15 friends and we always do TI's together, since like game start, so i took them for testing.
I also took a look at the numbers with other players and asked for their stats, and nearly all had lower stats than me.
As written, I haven't included arena into calculation because i know how it works, same as ranked, but i did observe it and the same thing happens. That's why, as you can see, the biggest number (120+) is from TI observations.
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- Tobei On 2017-05-09 21:15:44
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Correct.
Initiative and Ninja's growth (Stars) are calculated when it comes to Arena.
To add on. TI/Arena are not the better places to conduct an experiment as enemies can and will have a different set of values. PVP scenarios strictly are the way to go(Outside of Arena)
But to answer the question of the thread.
Yes, Secondary stats are working as intended.
How can you say that with certainty? You are not *l knowing naruto online mastermind. You are simply a normal player who gets paid a lot of coupons to give half ass answers.
Unless you mean to say that secondary stats are meant to be scaled poorly. I know for 100% certainty that Ninjutsu *ion and taijutsu *ion are worthless stats. And Critical/injury only work to a certain extent (And that extent isn't very much) and please don't get me started on the control stat.
I think it would be best to investigate this further because a lot of the * players know the truth about secondary stats.
Also PVE (Such as TI) would be a good place to test this because while the opponents initially would be a pretty offset place to test over the course of 4 weeks you can still get reliable data using the same TI as your control. Where as with PVP you might fight someone with stats that counter yours etc..
In the case of Crital and combo I guess PVP wouldn't be much different but I feel with different Powers being at play and more importantly the OP not being able to observe his friends fighting the same opponent as a control the information would be wonky at best. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 49
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- Tobei On 2017-05-09 21:15:44
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Correct.
Initiative and Ninja's growth (Stars) are calculated when it comes to Arena.
To add on. TI/Arena are not the better places to conduct an experiment as enemies can and will have a different set of values. PVP scenarios strictly are the way to go(Outside of Arena)
But to answer the question of the thread.
Yes, Secondary stats are working as intended.
When i brought my gnw tenten from two stars to three stars my displayed power in arena didn't change. I'm pretty sure the selection tool shows the current stars of the ninja but when you go in arena they aren't calculated in and you just use a preselected 3 stars version of it even if you have them higher grown up than that. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- Zelgadis~ On 2017-05-10 15:43:00
- When i brought my gnw tenten from two stars to three stars my displayed power in arena didn't change. I'm pretty sure the selection tool shows the current stars of the ninja but when you go in arena they aren't calculated in and you just use a preselected 3 stars version of it even if you have them higher grown up than that.
Or it simply doesn't apply the +5/10/15/20% modifier that a 2/3/4/5 star ninja have.
It would be wrong to say it uses the 3 star version since some ninjas have literally different version at different star stages, most being 2 but sasuke/naruto having 3 and I think 9 tail naruto having 4. I'm fairly certain you get the version you have in arena. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- kejmo On 2017-05-10 14:31:59
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Yes, the observation has been made with same players which haven't changed spec for like ages (osoi light main). I have a bromance lvl15 friends and we always do TI's together, since like game start, so i took them for testing.
I also took a look at the numbers with other players and asked for their stats, and nearly all had lower stats than me.
As written, I haven't included arena into calculation because i know how it works, same as ranked, but i did observe it and the same thing happens. That's why, as you can see, the biggest number (120+) is from TI observations.
Err... still not what I meant.
It doesn't matter if he never changed his team, the question is if he have the same team as you do.
So if he is lightning main, are you also lightning main?
If he is using, for example, mifune, darui and sage naruto, are you also using mifune, darui and sage naruto? (random guess on the ninja there, but you got the idea)
It's a question of having the same team with EACH OTHER as opposed to using the same team in all the runs. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- Blivy On 2017-05-10 14:49:37
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How can you say that with certainty? You are not *l knowing naruto online mastermind. You are simply a normal player who gets paid a lot of coupons to give half ass answers.
Unless you mean to say that secondary stats are meant to be scaled poorly. I know for 100% certainty that Ninjutsu *ion and taijutsu *ion are worthless stats. And Critical/injury only work to a certain extent (And that extent isn't very much) and please don't get me started on the control stat.
I think it would be best to investigate this further because a lot of the * players know the truth about secondary stats.
Also PVE (Such as TI) would be a good place to test this because while the opponents initially would be a pretty offset place to test over the course of 4 weeks you can still get reliable data using the same TI as your control. Where as with PVP you might fight someone with stats that counter yours etc..
In the case of Crital and combo I guess PVP wouldn't be much different but I feel with different Powers being at play and more importantly the OP not being able to observe his friends fighting the same opponent as a control the information would be wonky at best.
No. I meant exactly as I've said.
And yes, I'm a player but one that's been around for quite some time.
I'll repeat once again, Secondary stats are working as intended.
*ion statical has a low outcome and I've openly admitted that I'll recommend players focusing on the core stat lines to offset them. However, Injury is perfectly fine. There have been tests conducted for the defensive proposes of that sub stat and it has some great results. However the proc of "higher crit damage " has issues, it's minuscule. Hence why I've said it's defensive because it does protect a good chunk of Crit Damage.
Also, I'll disagree with the TI statement.
TI has pre-standard (artificial) stat lines, depending on the difficulty, some are over-tuned, while others aren't.
It's not a good place to test if something is indeed working. Grabbing a friend, and knowing exactly how their base stats are is the best scenario. Knowing those counter stats is what pushes your substats.
But hey, I'm just a normal player friend.
I'll be closing this thread before it becomes a debate/argument.
If OP has any more questions, feel free to message me.
This post was last edited by Tobei at 2017-5-10 08:41 -
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