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[ Help ] Initiative/Circles and refinement

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 01:56:42Show this Author OnlyDescending Order
1# Go To
So, say we have move 1 A1, move 2 B1, move 3 C1, move 4 D1 ninjas for one team and the same with 2 infront for other team (A2,B2,C2,D2)...
1st round starts. All mysteries used here are prompt.
B2 uses mystery on A1. B2 has less refinement than B1
Players wait for the above to resolve.
C2 uses mystery on A1.
B1 uses mystery on C2. C2 has much higher refinement than B1.


The question is - will B1 mystery activate first because B1 is in higher move order and supposedly its refinement battles B2's refinement not C2, meaning will B1 mystery activate first even if C2's refinement is 2000000 while B1's refinement is just 10?
The way they told me is that refinement battles affect only when 2 same move ninjas use mysteries together, if they both have equal refinement, then circles are measured to decide which mystery goes first. This also affects which ninja shall attack first.

Thank you!

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 02:30:40Show this Author Only
2#
Yes, B will always go before C or D. He will also never go before A, assuming prompt jutsu on both sides.

The only time refinement matters is if B1 and B2 are both trying to use a jutsu at the same time. B1 will go before B2 because his refinement is better.

You can test this appropriately by unequipping all your gear and dueling someone with refinement. You can still go before some of their ninjas as long as your ninjas are further up the move order than theirs.

Also note that jutsu timing is a thing. If you wait to activate your jutsu until there's a lull in the battle, best time is just before the character's turn, then the jutsu will fire off instantly and not even give your opponent a chance to interrupt unless they're playing on Auto. Likewise, sometimes I switch my control to Auto to allow my interrupters to be on overwatch mode and scan for quick casts. Once people master timing then interrupts in general will fall out of favor and seldom get used. You can even ensure your slow casting non-prompt jutsu don't get interrupted by using them just before the character activates. Right before Sasuke takes his turn, I queue up his jutsu and then he uses it immediately because it's now his standard attack.

This also leads to the technique of jutsu HIDING. When your enemy uses screenwide jutsu or performs a combo, all other ninjas get hidden from view. This allows you to queue up powers without your opponent being able to SEE them. The result of which is once the combo or screen effect is over, your jutsu is ready and active and firing off next without your enemy having any time to target you for an interrupt. Doesn't work on laggers.
This post was last edited by Kyutaru at 2016-9-11 02:37
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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  • Posts: 9
On 2016-09-11 02:53:31Show this Author Only
3#
  • Kyutaru On 2016-09-11 02:30:40
  • Yes, B will always go before C or D. He will also never go before A, assuming prompt jutsu on both sides.

    The only time refinement matters is if B1 and B2 are both trying to use a jutsu at the same time. B1 will go before B2 because his refinement is better.

    You can test this appropriately by unequipping all your gear and dueling someone with refinement. You can still go before some of their ninjas as long as your ninjas are further up the move order than theirs.

    Also note that jutsu timing is a thing. If you wait to activate your jutsu until there's a lull in the battle, best time is just before the character's turn, then the jutsu will fire off instantly and not even give your opponent a chance to interrupt unless they're playing on Auto. Likewise, sometimes I switch my control to Auto to allow my interrupters to be on overwatch mode and scan for quick casts. Once people master timing then interrupts in general will fall out of favor and seldom get used. You can even ensure your slow casting non-prompt jutsu don't get interrupted by using them just before the character activates. Right before Sasuke takes his turn, I queue up his jutsu and then he uses it immediately because it's now his standard attack.

    This also leads to the technique of jutsu HIDING. When your enemy uses screenwide jutsu or performs a combo, all other ninjas get hidden from view. This allows you to queue up powers without your opponent being able to SEE them. The result of which is once the combo or screen effect is over, your jutsu is ready and active and firing off next without your enemy having any time to target you for an interrupt. Doesn't work on laggers.
    This post was last edited by Kyutaru at 2016-9-11 02:37
You can't time an A1/A2 jutsu tho right? You just spam the jutsu *on so you can cast it as soon as round 1 starts, because those ninjas are the 1st ones to move.
If I want to time another jutsu, say ninja B1/B2, which would be the best time to do it? Right when A1/A2 are doing their attack animation or?

Thanks!
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 03:44:11Show this Author Only
4#
  • BobyMan On 2016-09-11 02:53:31
  • You can't time an A1/A2 jutsu tho right? You just spam the jutsu *on so you can cast it as soon as round 1 starts, because those ninjas are the 1st ones to move.
    If I want to time another jutsu, say ninja B1/B2, which would be the best time to do it? Right when A1/A2 are doing their attack animation or?

    Thanks!
You actually CAN time an A jutsu, it's just a very narrow window and you have to know how laggy your enemy is. If your opponent queues up an interrupt before you even cast anything just hold off your cast until after his ability goes off. If you want to quick cast beforehand and he hasn't queued an interrupt then you have to wait until all the buffs are done.

Setting the game to Auto mode will effectively quick cast all the time as the AI doesn't choose a jutsu until the round officially starts. That's why it's basically impossible to interrupt someone on Auto unless you queued the interrupt anticipating the action. Because of this, I often set my game to Auto if I have Hinata and then if I see the enemy queue up an interrupt I disable Auto.

Best time to "time" jutsu is usually as the ninjas are going back to their positions after acting. Problem is due to server lag you might miss the window so you have to experiment and see when the exact moment is for you. I usually do it as soon as I see the last guy use his standard, just before he returns to his position. If you have zero lag whatsoever it's even possible to time it for the last possible second. Totally depends on latency at the time.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 05:45:30Show this Author Only
5#
"Yes, B will always go before C or D. He will also never go before A, assuming prompt jutsu on both sides."

As i felt in game, if "B" have much more developed refinement or/and has a faster jutsu, he can cast his mystery before "A". As example - Guy/Iruka. Sometimes they interrupt my Main on turn 2/Hinata on turn 1 and sometimes - no. Guy has really slow jutsu, in 7 cases out of 10 he uses interruption too late(especially in rankeds). But Neji/Crymson Fist interrupt opponent's jutsu in 8-9 cases out of 10. Magic.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 05:59:17Show this Author Only
6#
You have 4 Ninjas with Position 1, 2, 3, 4

before the battle each team will start with passive buffs and maybe an passive barrier so here´s the first time attackspeed matter.

The refinement of all 4 Ninjas will be added together for both Teams. The slower Team then starts with buffing and the faster Team will buff after that. So the Barrier of the fastest team will be castet at the end and is the one that stays.


After Battle begins Both Teams stark opaks (instant opaks in this case )

To the question what Opaks will cast at first it´s everytime (unless amended by debuffs) Ninjas on 1. Position will attack before Ninjas on 2. Position and so on ...

So if Both Teams Ninja 1 are casting Opaks, the one with better refinement will cast first.

If Ur Teams 2. Ninja is casting an Opak and enemys Team 1. Position Ninja is casting, attack speed doesnt rly matter bcs 1st position is just faster then second.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 09:43:42Show this Author Only
7#
  • Narutlih On 2016-09-11 05:45:30
  • "Yes, B will always go before C or D. He will also never go before A, assuming prompt jutsu on both sides."

    As i felt in game, if "B" have much more developed refinement or/and has a faster jutsu, he can cast his mystery before "A". As example - Guy/Iruka. Sometimes they interrupt my Main on turn 2/Hinata on turn 1 and sometimes - no. Guy has really slow jutsu, in 7 cases out of 10 he uses interruption too late(especially in rankeds). But Neji/Crymson Fist interrupt opponent's jutsu in 8-9 cases out of 10. Magic.
Neji usually hits first only because he's usually always in the front row position 1. So he goes before everyone if you have high enough initiative.

But put Guy in the back like position 4 and he'll never interrupt anyone unless they're using non-prompt Jutsu like Sasuke or Gaara.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 18:30:22Show this Author Only
8#
anybody knows what does the Control and Injury means under refinements?

Initiative
Critical
Injury
Combo
Control

thanks in advance.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-11 18:45:33Show this Author Only
9#
Control = the probability of controlling an opponent/Reducing the probability of being controlled

Injury = Dmg value of a critical hit/reduces dmg from a critical hit

Critical = Chance of Critting / Chance of not getting crit

Combo = Increases the chance of hitting a combo with your STANDARD ATTACK / Likewise reduces the chance of being hit with a combo by standard attacks

And initiative is as explained many times = Action speed.
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