If you are relying on your auto attack to start your combo, your mysteries must be completely terrible along with ur init. Fire main has one of the best auto attacks in the game, being to hit multiple targets that don't have to be a specific position and have an auto attack that can completely control opponent.

You said nothing about his mystery and you are comparing them. Fire main's shield mystery basically allows his team to be unaffected by debuffs for one round, and it can ANY unit. Wind only can give 2 and it has to be female, while LM has to be sword and only gives 3, and these both last for only 2 rounds, and u can't time it. A han or masked man can easily remove one units buffs, along with the now arising shisui and itachi anbu meta. Fire main gives all regardless of what the units are and he can choose when to use it.

You underestimate the power of mirror genjutsu. If your opponent doesn't have a mirror, they will have an annoying time dealing with your team if their first debuff is a control debuff, such as shisui chaos.

At end game, basically all the mains are used for support. Fire main is one of the strongest support, immunity + shield, ignite multiple units, reflect debuff, and all his chase skills cause debuff which is another plus. His clone is probably the most underwhelming thing about him but an end of the round sleep/ignite is still amazing.

"If you are relying on your auto attack to start your combo"

I don't, at least not after the first round. But for the first round there is not much ninja that have mystery with 0 battlefield cooldown and able to start chase combo. Other main can rely on their auto attack to start that, why can't fire do that?

even earth main can hit multiple target and still can start chase combo

"You said nothing about his mystery and you are comparing them."

because I don't have any problem with fire mystery skills

"Wind only can give 2 and it has to be female, while LM has to be sword and only gives 3, and these both last for only 2 rounds, and u can't time it"

yes, it last for the first and second round, both the most important rounds in fights. with 3 turn cooldown, fire main can only protect the team for the first OR the second round. other than that the fight is basically finished

"You underestimate the power of mirror genjutsu. If your opponent doesn't have a mirror, they will have an annoying time dealing with your team if their first debuff is a control debuff, such as shisui chaos."

yes, then the chaos debuff is transfered back to shisui, but he is immune because of lightning main and he cast his spell in the second round. get it now why it is still inferior?

"At end game, basically all the mains are used for support. Fire main is one of the strongest support, immunity + shield, ignite multiple units, reflect debuff, and all his chase skills cause debuff which is another plus. His clone is probably the most underwhelming thing about him but an end of the round sleep/ignite is still amazing."

yes and at end game, all fights basically ends within the first 2 rounds. but I agree, time it right and his sleep is annoying. If the opponent is not immune that is LOL

and since you mention shisui so much, let'ts compare fire main to shisui, shisui attack guaranteed 2 ninja get burned and have high chance of repulsive, compared to maybe set some or all of 4 opponent on fire

1. Auto attacks: I agree on fire having one of the worse compared to the other characters but i don't believe it needs a buff as it's still useful. For example if you're running a control team(without shisui) with fire main and you want to cc a dodge ninja that's sheilded by some ninja/tanky clone late this round so he's immobilized next round, you'll need some ninja to bait out this standard. Due to the fire main's standard hitting up to 4 units and clone giving him 1+ standard, there's a good chance you can bait out the dodge to cc the dodge ninja. If you were running a wind main control team and the enemy protected the dodge ninja, you would have to waste a mystery to bait off that dodge to cc the dodge ninja. Also why does combo even matter, there's usually 3 other ninjas that can set up the combo and usually main is pos 3 or pos 4 so some other ninja well set it up, and other mains don't rely on combo standards either. Earth main runs shields, wind main usually runs clones, end game light main teams usually use the chakra gain, and water runs heals.

2. Talent changes: Won't work cn has already developed those and we'll eventually get the update when our oasis feels it's time. His clone gets a buff tho that's all ik.

3. Ok when comparing the mains individually fire main looks weak, but when you look how good mains synergize with ninjas that changes. Here's a rundown,

Fire main synergizes with a lot more/better ninjas than lightning main and maybe wind atm. Wind can't give immunity to extremely powerful ninjas atm and the light main teams are strictley with swords ninjas which are all pretty squishy. On the other hand, fire main can give 1 round immunity to all ninjas which allows better synergy with top teir ninjas. With the debuff transfer, most ppl will have to wait after it's baited out to use mm to debuff fire main/break the immunity(or you c*e the mystery after mm has used his), and the mystery attribute of the immunity allows a better chance against han.

His oboro clone+shield is decent protection for pos 1 squishy ninjas not to be blitzed r1 which other mains can't provide well because none of them buff defense(all standards are usually tai/mixed tai) or run a tanky clone without becoming *.

His chases also help make up for some of his weaker passives.

Although his passives don't synergize the best like earth and water main atm, he's still doing well in the meta atm so he's good for now. If you expect fire main or any main to be top teir at every attribute of a main that's unrealistic as every main needs to be competitive so they all have a niche somewhere.

Tbh currently fire main is kinda weak...just saying

1. OK it is useful for baiting a dodge ninja, but when compared to others, earth main standard change to cause immobile and low float when he is already shielded, wind main clone can tank or can start the chase combo for you, water heal and dispel debuff, it's still useful, but not that useful compared to others, especially outside those special case you mention

2. well at least the clone is getting a buff so it's good

3. of course i don't expect fire main to excel at everything, but what does he excel at anyway? whatever support he is trying to give, defensive or offensive, other main can do it better

dealing with debuff? use lightning or wind, if its not female or sword user? use water main to dispel it.

earth will stand in front, immune to chase combo and keep shielding those behind

wind clone will be all the enemy attacking, easily generated

water will keep the team alive while chipping away enemies health with poison.

lightning can stand in front and be immune to all debuff and keep healing himself.

fire main doesn't have that

if for example, one of fire standard is to give ninja with the least health a genjutsu shield to make him/her evade the first attack / mystery skill, and his passive support that kind of role, that would be cool. of course that is just an example, it could be anything really, that he can be excel at something.

for now, yeah he can synergize with more ninja than other main, but those synergy is not much, only his 4th mystery does. while other main can synergize much more to their specific niche.

90% of the whales are SB, i suppose is because they love the 'weakest' main.

it is, the problem is that gives exactly what is needed to whalish teams to work fine.

Fire main gives the all round support. Unlike other mains which can only really help 1.

Debuff coverage: Immune mirror that can work around han and debuff mirror can make heavy cc users wait till the mirror gets baited out.

Blitz coverage: The clone+shield in front of a squishy dodge ninja like jonin minato can protect him from most heavy standards in r1 which allows jonin minato to effectively be a pos 1 ninja. Other ninjas can only buff specific ninjas with resistance(most standards are tai) and clones that can actually take damage and protect the dodge are useless as they sacrifice an important part of the main's passive.

Chase: The 10 hit combo can help combos and ignites 2 ninjas helping chases deal more damage and stops heals.

Standard: baits the annoying dodge ninjas and could cause ignite.

2. some main's niche don't work well with the ninjas we have at whale lvl and when ppl get some coupon ninjas. lightmain only works with swordsmen and they're all squishy af. No strong ninja is able to gain immunity from wind main atm. Current water main teams get's cced and killed easily and once you kill the water main, poison tai is gone and so is healing tips.

3. If you still believe that fire main is useless look at space time and see what most mains use at whale lvl, earth and fire main.

Might have been the case way back in the day. Now it's a pretty even between Earth and Fire at least based on space time and my servers individual rankings.

That being said, I agree with the original post that it would be nice if the normal attack had a chase condition on more than just 1 of them. And if ninjustu urge was 25% like lightning main.

Those Itachi and Madara combo >.>

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Back to topic

I guess everyone has their own favour.

I've considered to play fire many many times, but I dont have the right ninjas (even meta ninjas to be in fact). So I am *ing with my water-Roshi for year. XDD

fyi i dont know him being weakest, when it's 9 tails event lots of plays switched to fire.

Also back in the day i beat expert coin cat with fire with 65k. I couldn't do it with other mains.

Unparalleled is the main reason. But also Fire Enhancement is the reason we all swap to fire for 9 tails. Double 50% boosts are huge. Plus Iruka and Hashi with another 30%, 30%, and 40%. It's just pure damage for the first 3 rounds. If Unparalleled gets changed, you'd see way less Fire mains for 9 tails. Right now my first round mystery with Fire Main is over 250K damage, Tonton (max cultivation) is over 350K, plus the normal attack and chase are another couple 100K as well. Close to 1 million damage first round.

If u compare each main only/with team i beliave SB isnt the weakest. He is so powerful againt healing ninja, ya water can remove all debuff but its really weak against ignite even water can handle edo deidara+jinpachi atm.

Before they added Unparalleled and other 4th mystery, passives. His dragon fire mystery did the exact same thing Unparalleled do now, increase damage to clones and summon, c*e it twice before 4 rounds cooldown. Basically a clone destroyer and combo starter. So the only thing they did to him is nerf his pvp aspect and buff the ninetails aspect which 70-80% players population don't participate anyway because level freeze is a must.

Same for his mirror return passive, before it has another effect that increase damage cause to the ignited target which made him sync so well with Tobi. Then they nerfed both of them, Tobi can't start combo anymore, can't dodge anything at all, can't revive and fire main's passive. So once again they nerfed his offensive aspect and make him just another Kurenai version, nothing unique.

Then we talk about his clone, yea before the clone can attack by itself and has high chance to cause repluse and imprison to cover for the lack of combo initiator in his stardard attacks. But yea they also nerfed it.

All they did was gave him the 4th mystery which has 3 rounds cd in return for all those nerfs. Made him became just another support while take away all his offensive gimmick as a fire main. But when it come to support, Water and Earth do a better job than him and they keep buffing other mains, Wind is extremely powerful now with all the buffs in 4.0 in both aspects while completely abandoned fire main because he was so called "OP" in 1.0.
IMO, give his increase damage to ignited targets back. It's the best gimmick for him and it's just like a poison tai gimmick for water or clone for wind or leech for mb or shield for earth.

please what is sb?

scarlet blaze

Although I think Scarlet Blaze is far from weak (he's like the most common main among high spenders/high BP players), this whole discussion is pointless. Oasis cannot change any ninjas, only the original Chinese developer can change the game.

First of all Scarlet Blaze lacks any clear debuffs or immunity on himself and other characters, accupuncture him round 1 and he can't do anything about it, unless you waste a ninja slot on a useless character like Gakido. Replace one of his standard attacks with a lightning main calm mind for example. Yea he can bait dodge with his fourth standard but he's gonna be slot 3-4 ninja anyway, cause he's only good for support.

Look at Lightning Main, immunity to 3 sword ninjas and 100% more resistance. Not only you can't debuff them, unless you have Han/Mask Man/Kushina Red. Cause round 2 may be already too late if they have more initiative, but you also do 100% less damage with ninjutsu. Considering sword ninjas are meta ninjas, lightning main will only have 1 spot that may drag the team down, which isn't the case if he puts Kushina Red, or any other good immune, dodge ninja, super armor ninja. Basically if you can't debuff them you lost the fight.

Look at Wind Main, they stack res and def on her, make her immune, then you waste combo on her, they use Kurenai's shield on her, then she clears everyone's debuffs and can do mysteries all over again.

Now look at Fire Main, only has 1 good mystery, Illusion-Mirroring jutsu, 3 round cooldown, if it gets interrupted it's GG, if you get immobilized your clone is only a meatshield, not as good as water's clone, or wind main's.

Let's look at Fire Main in comparison to Lightning again, Lightning has better leech, with Warrior's Killing Intent he c*e Shisui every round. You only have 1 good pvp passive as SB, Genjutsu Mirror, which can be easily baited, while LM gets Root of Warrior, Anbu Special Tactics and Warrior's Killing Intent, also Heart Flux for Madara Blitz Teams. LM has Accupuncture, AOE Paralysis, Lightning Armor, and potential every round mystery. SB still only Illusion Mirror for pvp.

SUGGESTIONS for Scarlet Blaze improvement:

1. Make Illusion-Mirroring Jutsu 2 round cooldown instead of 3.

2. Replace one of his standard attacks with one similar to Lightning Main's Calm Mind.

3. Make his clone attack on it's own, using Scarlet Blaze's Fire Style-Bomb Blast. Make it have 60% of it's owner HP instead of 40%. Basically same % as Water Main's version of it.

4. Make Ninjutsu Urge leech for 25% and improve ninjutsu by 25%. Basically same % as LM's version of it. Keep Genjutsu Mirror where it is, his only redeeming passive.

5. Last but not least, give him Immunity Passive to 3 fire ninjas and 100% resistance, name it Root of Fire and replace Death Mirage with it.

There is no point in having a talent slot, a weaker clone of someone else's talent, cause it still wastes one talent slot.

Now BRB while I switch to Lightning Main, seem to be the better option for PvP.

dont understimate fire mains calestial imprison chase.clone got nerfed,since he cant attack,but some may say its better than previous clone-who used calestial imprison as standard.death mirage,one of the second passives got nerfed too.so they keep nerfing fire main

Or actually replace Bani Chakra, the most useless passive in the game.