If you can finish group summon BEFORE, you can fini* NOW. Because any group that can't clear ambush also won't have enough damage to kill the summon in the first place.

But for smaller groups, it will require thinking and teamwork for a change.

What do you mean by, "any group that can't clear ambush also won't have enough damage to kill the summon in the first place." We each take it down a couple layers before the ambush, won't change after the ambush unless we can't defeat the * ambush ninjas.
And, since my group doesn't really have that many players active for group summon we can't form teams to beat them. It's pointless for smaller groups too if the members level difference is dramatic and the ninjas do a lot of damage, just like my group.

A chance is only consumed if you LOSE against the ambush. Which means if you form teams, one team can kill ALL the ambushes and then happily proceed to the summon.

In fact, this happened for our group on our first summon after the update. We didn't expect it to happen, so the ambush wiped most of us out (consumed our chances), only 2 person remain, they teamed up, killed all the ambushes and finished the summon (thou with only 1 min left on the clock) For the record, both of them were ftp

Since unless you are super ptw, you can't solo the summon. That means any group that can kill the summon probably have 2-4 active players during summon AT LEAST (2 if they are both rly strong, more are needd if they aren't as strong). Therefore, if your group can kill the summon, there is enough player to form 1-2 teams, which means you can kill the ambushes which means you can proceed to kill the summon as before. Note that there is a finite number of ambushes, they don't respawn endlessly.

Also note that the ambush scales with the level of the player that fight them. In case of teams thou, it scales with the highest player. This means that if you have one 50, one 60, one 70 and one 80 player, for example, the 80 should team with the 70 and 50 with 60. Furthermore, the lower level player should be in the center with a tanky team (hinata, akatsuchi and the like) to absorb the damage. Such a team should be able to survive 2 rounds at least. And the higher level player c*e that time to significantly damage the enemy, which will allow them to win later.

So in the end, either you could never beat it to begin with, or it can be beaten, thou potentially require quite a bit of work, despite it. The only change is now it's harder to arrange for alt hits and you can't just go in leeroy jenkins style

I agree. It, indeed, is much harder since it requires many people in your group to fini* and most of the servers that haven't been merged yet has very few active people left in their respective groups. Sigh. The concept and the idea is great but is not that applicable.

did you know before you go into summon you can make a team?

u can make a team (no its bugged) XD

The problem is time.

While it is true that in groups of 2-3 people the ambush ninja can be cleared without much trouble, it will take probably 3-6 minutes to kill one of those teams.

Now in a non merged server where there are 3-4 people capable of beating the ambush ninjas due to lvl differenceor many other factors, if one of the is missing, your strong members effectively loose half the alloted time to kill the summon. Not only that, but the weaker players that heped kill the summon have to wait for al ambush to be cleared.

In a non merged server, that means that a sizable portion of your main damage force is wasting time with ambush ninjas and by the time they finish, they do not have nough time left to do 10 rounds against the world boss.

In theory if you could kill the summon before you can still kill it now. In practice, if you have few members (say around 6) that participate in summon capture and not everyone is strong enough to beat in pairs the ambush ninjas, then you will not be able to kill the summon. Specially since not all people can be there at the beginning of the summon capture.

It's not all about strategy and whatnot in a time limited event. While it's more fun imo this way, its true that in our server none of the 2 active groups has been able to kill the summon yet. It's a fact that killing it is much harder now.

The problem here for me with the ambush was when I beat the ambush I got attacked again the same turn....and while I was fighting the ambush lost the first place and couldnt catxh up later on...i got 2 ambush ninjas in 1 turn...i think this summon is poorly done cause some dont even get one ambush...

There is a finite number of ambush (max 3) at any given time. So if they are all busy fighting someone, others can happily go to summon w/o being attacked. You are just unfortunate that when you were "free",. it just happens that they are also free and decided to pick on you.

Oh they picked on me alright so I picked on them lol but still wasted a lot od time ...

Given what you said, I would guess that such a group can't clear all the sealed in the first 10 min, giving only 20 min for the summon after it auto spawns.

A 10 round battle takes 3.5 to 5 min, depends on what team is used. That's the first thing that should happen after summon spawns.

Then it's time needed to clear the ambushes with just one team, if that's what it comes down to. That, based on the experience my group had with clearing all ambush with one team, would take around 10 min.

This means you would have 5 min or so left, which is only enough time to do one more 10-round. So if before the change, the summon requires everyone to attack 3 times, then it would be rather difficult to defeat.

To be honest, our group have very little experience with the ambush, because after the first one where we had to deal with them, we just do an organized full burn on the summon and it dies without us having to fight them. So I don't know if they all spawn at once or one spawns per every X bar of damage taken and whether it's a total of 3 or if there is a max of 3 with "refills". If it's a total of 3, then the members that are NOT on the ambush-killing team can attach the summon as soon as "the team" engages the 3rd ambush. This will allow those other people to do 3 battles.

As for "the team", the best way to use that last 5 min would be enter the fight, fight for 3-4 rounds, exit, then fight for the 3rd time. For most teams, about half the damage is dealt in the first 3 round, so this might actually end up yielding more damage in the 5 min frame than fighting a full battle first.

But if the ambush spawns as damage is dealt and have refills, those can't really be done, because more would spawn in between the fights and there won't be time to clear them.

So you are right, time is an issue for group that were barely defeating the summon before, and by barely I mean it takes 3 attacks from everyone to beat it.

At the same time, if you sacrifice some alts and/or weakest player who won't do much damage anyway, you could tie up the ambushes so that the strong player who can do real damage can just run pass to fight the summon for the second time. This would require a bit of coordination but should work. As the ambush scales with player's level, even the weakest player should be able to tie them up for half a minute on 1x speed, maybe even 1+ min. So sacrificing 3 people can potentially allow second wave to commence. And then same is done for the 3rd wave (same sacrifice, since they'd have chances left, and the rest run)
Do note, however, if you want to do this, make sure that you do not end combat inside the summon field. Instead, when your battle is about to be over, be it losing against ambush or reaching limit against summon, refresh the game so the ambush can't unexpectedly get you. Then, stand near the summon manager together, have the fodders enter first to tie up the ambush with rest of the player entering about 10 seconds later and rush the summon.

Regardless of method thou, they all require the group members to work together and coordinate. Nothing would work if stuff like "Specially since not all people can be there at the beginning of the summon capture" persists. I man at that level of disorganization, a group might fail even if more time is given, if people just run in by their lonesome whenever they finally decide to log in, when all the player who were there earlier are already "dead". Whereas I can blame the game for the low population, this is on the group members.

For smaller group like mine, with 3 to 5 active players at most, the problem is definitely time. each ambush takes us over 5 minutes to pass :P, so even when we are done killing them we still dont have time to kill the summon. An extra 10 minutes would be nice.

Also, why are the rewards for ambushes so small??? Like why???