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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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1＃ Go ToIt has come to my notice that a a bunch of people in myh merged server has been rigging swb. By using multiple accounts of people. Now these people are either have quitted or aren't free to play. At first it seems like a valid reason to help others play their accounts, however this is actually an abuse on what they do in swb.
1. The moment u win in a battle, they bring another player to beat u up with the right lineup, not just higher power. That is not much wrong at first, but you will get it as I explain later, the unfairness also lies in the fact that swb is suppose to have a degree of anonymity. You only get random spawn when
you die in the battlefield. And with the amount of character they have in the battlefiled. Sometimes this person is able to tell who you are by seeing you spawn right after you lost. And you will be *ed from the start of the game.
2. But if you win, they will immediately bring a higher power chracter and wait to challenge you once your battle ends. And this is not the end, they will try to make everyone of their character in the same guild reach top 3 in each faction. And this bunch of people is from a top single guild. Their power range from 60k to 80k. They will beat you up even if you are in the same Kyobu faction or Myobo Ryuuichi (whatever) as them because they will simply bring an opposite side higher character wait for your battle to end and bring your points down, so their guild member can stay at top 3 and get 5 advanced refine rune and seal scroll every single time.
This is honestly not acceptable. SWb is suppose to be an indivudual challenge. And if the person had paid for the ingots and trained all the chars himself it would be okay. But they pool all their resources under a single person control and dominate the battlefield.
If you are in a different faction, you should help your own faction win regardless of guild. And they are breaking this rule by doing this.
They have been doing this for frcking months. Now that I had let the cat out of the bag you bet that more people will start to do this.
The only way is to bring x-server swb.
So please fix this. Thank you.
*edit. If x-svr swb doesnt solve the issue then do whatever it takes, thank you This post was last edited by ser***@gmail.com at 2017-5-13 22:18 -
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cross server swb brings a different set of problems.
TBH, the real problem is * players in your server. Cross server SWB is not the solution to that problem. While it may help your isolated problem a little, it upsets all the other servers with balanced swb. So before you call for something which affects other servers, please consider them too.
However, do note that what you are describing doesn't necessarily rig swb. Killing a player continuously reaps no benefits except maybe knocking a strong player out. This is hard to do considering people blindly clicking everybody and you can leave SWB field for a while to counter being continuously targeted. I would consider letting someone else take your 10 streak run for free to boost their points more like rigging. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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People from same group tend to not attack each others at the begining, they will prefer to target low levels and weak players 1st (or even clones) then when all easy prey got eliminated they fight each other for fun.
If you are surfering camping, you can ask for help from your group mates and fight them back. But that only work if your group have some strong players in top 10 (at least 2), if your group don't have any strong people then use tanky team, if you can't beat them then stall them. Eventually they will reconsider everytime they want to attck you. I used to be camped by top 3 spenders from the top 1 group (I was top 8-10 at that time) but then I started to stall them and build a defensive team, once I beat 1 of them and gave others 2 a hard time they just stop messing with me. Good luck.
And like the guy above me said, cross server swb is not a good option. -
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- Oshiri On 2017-05-13 00:12:37
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People from same group tend to not attack each others at the begining, they will prefer to target low levels and weak players 1st (or even clones) then when all easy prey got eliminated they fight each other for fun.
If you are surfering camping, you can ask for help from your group mates and fight them back. But that only work if your group have some strong players in top 10 (at least 2), if your group don't have any strong people then use tanky team, if you can't beat them then stall them. Eventually they will reconsider everytime they want to attck you. I used to be camped by top 3 spenders from the top 1 group (I was top 8-10 at that time) but then I started to stall them and build a defensive team, once I beat 1 of them and gave others 2 a hard time they just stop messing with me. Good luck.
And like the guy above me said, cross server swb is not a good option.
since they're top 25 BP of our region, i doubt that will work. Maybe we can give them hard time by use 1 min to kill us instead of 30 sec. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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It is super rigging man. You are not suppose to fight for guild in swb but only faction. They will bring their own guys to top 3 which has 5 adv runes and 1 seal scroll every 3 times a week. This is cheating and most imbalance event in the game. The framework of swb is flawed from the start.
We should randomize the clothing of all the characters at start, and each time after it dies, to confuse the person who operates all the alts and other people's account. When you see so many clothings and headgears in the battlefield, you are bound to be confused and lost track of who enemies were, and difficulty recognizing your other accounts.
This way it can help reduce all the campings etc. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- On 2017-05-12 23:38:25
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cross server swb brings a different set of problems.
TBH, the real problem is * players in your server. Cross server SWB is not the solution to that problem. While it may help your isolated problem a little, it upsets all the other servers with balanced swb. So before you call for something which affects other servers, please consider them too.
However, do note that what you are describing doesn't necessarily rig swb. Killing a player continuously reaps no benefits except maybe knocking a strong player out. This is hard to do considering people blindly clicking everybody and you can leave SWB field for a while to counter being continuously targeted. I would consider letting someone else take your 10 streak run for free to boost their points more like rigging.
What are the set of problems cross server sage might bring? (apart from lag, probably) -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- PoisonScrub On 2017-05-13 17:40:40
- What are the set of problems cross server sage might bring? (apart from lag, probably)
You werent here when the xserver sage poll was in action, were you? You can go and take a look at that poll, plenty of potential problems were brought up against xserver for sage.
I like the random clothing solution solution, but let's try one better: how about a random re-spawning point? -
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- Watanuki13 On 2017-05-13 17:47:31
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You werent here when the xserver sage poll was in action, were you? You can go and take a look at that poll, plenty of potential problems were brought up against xserver for sage.
I like the random clothing solution solution, but let's try one better: how about a random re-spawning point?
On the contrary, I was there since the beginning ;P I remember the problem being a lack of confidence in the system due to the recent cross arena that was implemented. However, that was I believe aptly addressed on the seemingly not-so-well-known second post of the page. Perhaps you can refresh my memory on other problems brought up in your own words? -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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- PoisonScrub On 2017-05-13 18:01:08
- On the contrary, I was there since the beginning ;P I remember the problem being a lack of confidence in the system due to the recent cross arena that was implemented. However, that was I believe aptly addressed on the seemingly not-so-well-known second post of the page. Perhaps you can refresh my memory on other problems brought up in your own words?
Ah good, i see you remember that 2nd post. Save me the time (trying to) paraphrase it. Pretty funny too because it was that 2nd post that pushed me to voted no.
The problem was that the system classifies the players by their lvs first, then bp, instead of taking both player's lvs and bp into consideration at the same time; or establishing a reasonable cap to lessen the power gap. And we have already known from playing the game, lv doesn't mean that much when it come to pvp. There are plenty of examples about how ppl purposely postpone lving up their characters to better benefit them in Matsuri/Sage. Staying in one server means you could at least keep an eye on these guys and prepare yourself if you run into them.
Also, was there a point when ppl really feel comfortable or satisfied with the matchmaking system in the game? The programming might be different amongst arena, matsuri and sage - and this has been stressed in so many posts, yet plenty of ppl still don't trust the matching system and voted no. Heck, people know that this is unavoidable and they still vote no. Shouldn't that tell you about how people feel toward the matchmaking system?
The rest of the problem like the amount of adv threads dished out, lag, queing time, the very forseeable and unavoidable bugs, etc. are neglegible, really. This post was last edited by Watanuki13 at 2017-5-13 19:35 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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Having a random respawning point every single time after battle is over seems like a simple workable idea :D
Also, Watever problem we think that in x-server swb will bring can be solved. If it is about bringing bp into factor it can be solved, if it is about lag it can be solved, all these things is not suppose to be as they make the game better.
It is their job to develop the game and ours to ask and suggest ideas for it. I am also not limiting to x-server swb or anything at all, just whatever it works to bring this nonsense to an end. SWB is like a * simulator that havent even gotten out of beta.
I remb that when swb first started there was no random respawning point but they changed it becuz of obvious camping. So now they should continue to improve it better.
Don't limit our selves in a box guys. This post was last edited by ser***@gmail.com at 2017-5-13 22:39 -
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- Watanuki13 On 2017-05-13 19:34:39
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Ah good, i see you remember that 2nd post. Save me the time (trying to) paraphrase it. Pretty funny too because it was that 2nd post that pushed me to voted no.
The problem was that the system classifies the players by their lvs first, then bp, instead of taking both player's lvs and bp into consideration at the same time; or establishing a reasonable cap to lessen the power gap. And we have already known from playing the game, lv doesn't mean that much when it come to pvp. There are plenty of examples about how ppl purposely postpone lving up their characters to better benefit them in Matsuri/Sage. Staying in one server means you could at least keep an eye on these guys and prepare yourself if you run into them.
Also, was there a point when ppl really feel comfortable or satisfied with the matchmaking system in the game? The programming might be different amongst arena, matsuri and sage - and this has been stressed in so many posts, yet plenty of ppl still don't trust the matching system and voted no. Heck, people know that this is unavoidable and they still vote no. Shouldn't that tell you about how people feel toward the matchmaking system?
The rest of the problem like the amount of adv threads dished out, lag, queing time, the very forseeable and unavoidable bugs, etc. are neglegible, really. This post was last edited by Watanuki13 at 2017-5-13 19:35
That probably took you some effort to type out, so I'll try to reply to everything x_x
The main reason why people postponed lving up their characters was because of the split sage in more populous servers, namely S1. In almost all other servers, there probably isn't such an occurrence happening (apart from the obvious alternate accounts that many people seem to have) as there is no such benefit from doing so. Hence, it would be safe to assume that such things happening would be rare.
As you mentioned, taking both player's lvs and bp into consideration at the same time - I don't quite understand how that works. Let's say power was mainly used. It is undeniable that the older servers would have a natural advantage in terms of that. In order to match the players from older servers in terms of initiative / power, players from newer servers would have to most likely pay more. I doubt that is how oasis would want to treat the paying players - this would essentially remove the advantage of paying players in newer servers. The current system would allow paying players to more likely dominate the tables which is more likely a possible intent.
You mentioned that this was unavoidable, but bear in mind this vote happened before the whole Aris issue. Players didn't know that this was undeniable when the majority voted. The post about how the matching works was added much later, and I believe many of the votes that went in was before they saw the post. Even towards the end when the thread died down, some players that said they voted no seemed to be unaware of said 2nd post. I don't think that this would be a good gauge of how the players feel.
The amount of advanced refines given out - This essentially only benefits the higher levels on the server. Judging this based on server merged sage - the closest thing to what the possible new system features (i.e populated sage) the mid-power players have no chance of getting the advanced refine runes and seal scrolls anyway. They would have a higher chance of finishing top 3 in the cross server sage, which is fairer for players who joined the server late. (Also worth noting that the game in it's current state is not very newbie-friendly, and many players have to join the new servers in order to truly play. This takes one step towards addressing this issue)
Lag - I mentioned that this is something that is likely to occur, nothing to say. Queueing time - the wonderful thing about sage world is that there is no queue time. Once you're in the battlefield, you're pretty much ready to go. The servers would also have the 10 minutes of registration time to arrange the players in their system, most likely. Bugs - All features have bugs. Heck, even the Ninja Bond system still has bugs. However, given enough time these bugs will be fixed - especially if they're game breaking. So pretty negligible.
This... Took alot longer than I thought. Hooray for distractions. -
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- PoisonScrub On 2017-05-13 22:22:45
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That probably took you some effort to type out, so I'll try to reply to everything x_x
The main reason why people postponed lving up their characters was because of the split sage in more populous servers, namely S1. In almost all other servers, there probably isn't such an occurrence happening (apart from the obvious alternate accounts that many people seem to have) as there is no such benefit from doing so. Hence, it would be safe to assume that such things happening would be rare.
As you mentioned, taking both player's lvs and bp into consideration at the same time - I don't quite understand how that works. Let's say power was mainly used. It is undeniable that the older servers would have a natural advantage in terms of that. In order to match the players from older servers in terms of initiative / power, players from newer servers would have to most likely pay more. I doubt that is how oasis would want to treat the paying players - this would essentially remove the advantage of paying players in newer servers. The current system would allow paying players to more likely dominate the tables which is more likely a possible intent.
You mentioned that this was unavoidable, but bear in mind this vote happened before the whole Aris issue. Players didn't know that this was undeniable when the majority voted. The post about how the matching works was added much later, and I believe many of the votes that went in was before they saw the post. Even towards the end when the thread died down, some players that said they voted no seemed to be unaware of said 2nd post. I don't think that this would be a good gauge of how the players feel.
The amount of advanced refines given out - This essentially only benefits the higher levels on the server. Judging this based on server merged sage - the closest thing to what the possible new system features (i.e populated sage) the mid-power players have no chance of getting the advanced refine runes and seal scrolls anyway. They would have a higher chance of finishing top 3 in the cross server sage, which is fairer for players who joined the server late. (Also worth noting that the game in it's current state is not very newbie-friendly, and many players have to join the new servers in order to truly play. This takes one step towards addressing this issue)
Lag - I mentioned that this is something that is likely to occur, nothing to say. Queueing time - the wonderful thing about sage world is that there is no queue time. Once you're in the battlefield, you're pretty much ready to go. The servers would also have the 10 minutes of registration time to arrange the players in their system, most likely. Bugs - All features have bugs. Heck, even the Ninja Bond system still has bugs. However, given enough time these bugs will be fixed - especially if they're game breaking. So pretty negligible.
This... Took alot longer than I thought. Hooray for distractions.
OK, first of all, cut the passive-aggressive bulls if you want to have a respectful conversation with ppl, which is something I thought we were doing until i read your last reply O.o. You asked and i answered, because I honestly thought you weren't awared of the thread. If you got off from baiting ppl, go for * - it's healthier for the both of us. (Also, pardon me for taking so much time compose such a so-so reply. I guess sometimes you forget that this is an international game/forum and not everybody speaks English as their native language. But if that wasn't a dig about my English proficency then please feel free to ignore this part.)
As for 2nd, I think you understand it quite well. OG won't be nerfing paying players so much - afterall, they pay to have the edge. I suppose I could have phrased it differently; what I meant was grouping ppl with similar lv but withing a certain power cap; for example all lv 90 with BP between 60 to 70k, then move to the next cluster, and so on. Also, you are that sure that you could speak for all servers?
Erm, no. Actually ppl know since pre-Aris. Unless those ppl don't follow Scion or don't dig around the Chinese forum. Or play the Taiwan version on Facebook.
As for your last 2 points, please go back and re-read what I said. I said it was neglegible, meaning they are non-issue.
Dude, I mean no disrespect to you in anyway, so cool you jet, go back and re-read what I said. Some stuffs you said make me feel like you just skimmed through a few words and got pissed. -
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- Watanuki13 On 2017-05-13 22:59:30
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OK, first of all, cut the passive-aggressive bulls if you want to have a respectful conversation with ppl, which is something I thought we were doing until i read your last reply O.o. You asked and i answered, because I honestly thought you weren't awared of the thread. If you got off from baiting ppl, go for * - it's healthier for the both of us. (Also, pardon me for taking so much time compose such a so-so reply. I guess sometimes you forget that this is an international game/forum and not everybody speaks English as their native language. But if that wasn't a dig about my English proficency then please feel free to ignore this part.)
As for 2nd, I think you understand it quite well. OG won't be nerfing paying players so much - afterall, they pay to have the edge. I suppose I could have phrased it differently; what I meant was grouping ppl with similar lv but withing a certain power cap; for example all lv 90 with BP between 60 to 70k, then move to the next cluster, and so on. Also, you are that sure that you could speak for all servers?
Erm, no. Actually ppl know since pre-Aris. Unless those ppl don't follow Scion or don't dig around the Chinese forum. Or play the Taiwan version on Facebook.
As for your last 2 points, please go back and re-read what I said. I said it was neglegible, meaning they are non-issue.
Dude, I mean no disrespect to you in anyway, so cool you jet, go back and re-read what I said. Some stuffs you said make me feel like you just skimmed through a few words and got pissed.
I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I had absolutely zero intent on making a dig at your post. You made a decently long post and I took it with utmost respect and took the time to reply to every detail mentioned in the post. Hence, I even replied to the negligible issues you mentioned to prove my point that these issues are subjective or not so important. Your post was pretty polished as well, I couldn't tell you didn't speak english as your native language at all. (which was what you seemed to hint at) English isn't my native language as well so we're equal. :)
The current system essentially does that, but perhaps your system does it better. What was missed is that there is a limit to the number of players that there are in a cluster. The players might end up in a half-filled or barely filled sage that they will be thrown in the next field. (which is this system pretty much)
I can't speak for all the servers. That I can't deny. I'm basing this off the forums which I lurk and my experience only. I believe this is the same for most players too.
Well, I knew that cross sage was a feature that would have been added sooner or later, but what I didn't know was that they were ALREADY ready to implement it and the vote was originally meant to be a false sense of choice that the players affected their decisions on developing a function more quickly. -
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How is poisonscrub last post rude at all? I tot it was quite respectful at all? lol
As for nerfing paying players too much, I doubt if they balance this aspect of the game, it affects anything at all. You dont pay a game in order to cheat in it. You only make yourself strong, and that is already good enough. Having a part to cheat just becuz u paid is obviously going to shun off off f2p players, and I tell you i gona spread this info to more people soon. And when they find out this method of cheating and abusing, they gona lose interest. And this people can go play by themselves soon. lol
I am sure this swb framework is very easy to be balanced. There are countless of other sandbox type games including dota which all have a similar principle. Die and spawn. So much discussion from us but there are already many other games that had already overcome this simple abusing balancing issue.
It's isnt that frcking hard to balance it. They are just ignoring it becuz the simple community didnt know how these ppl are operating and I didnt know how unfair it wass until I got 3rd for once.
We are talking about 5 ADVANCED REFINE RUNES PER SWB, ITS THE ONLY WEEKLY EVENT TO GET ARR WHICH IS * EXPENSIVE. SO THE FK WAKEY UP
This post was last edited by ser***@gmail.com at 2017-5-13 23:35 -
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- seiyao On 2017-05-13 23:27:05
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How is poisonscrub last post rude at all? I tot it was quite respectful at all? lol
As for nerfing paying players too much, I doubt if they balance this aspect of the game, it affects anything at all. You dont pay a game in order to cheat in it. You only make yourself strong, and that is already good enough. Having a part to cheat just becuz u paid is obviously going to shun off off f2p players, and I tell you i gona spread this info to more people soon. And when they find out this method of cheating and abusing, they gona lose interest. And this people can go play by themselves soon. lol
I am sure this swb framework is very easy to be balanced. There are countless of other sandbox type games including dota which all have a similar principle. Die and spawn. So much discussion from us but there are already many other games that had already overcome this simple abusing balancing issue.
It's isnt that frcking hard to balance it. They are just ignoring it becuz the simple community didnt know how these ppl are operating and I didnt know how unfair it wass until I got 3rd for once.
We are talking about 5 ADVANCED REFINE RUNES PER SWB, ITS THE ONLY WEEKLY EVENT TO GET ARR WHICH IS * EXPENSIVE. SO THE FK WAKEY UP
This post was last edited by ser***@gmail.com at 2017-5-13 23:35
Phew, I really had to take a walk after that. I guess I took some of the things you said in the worst way possible when you were probably trying to lighten the post up and I apologize for that. It's tough to read the meaning behind writings without verbal cues.
I think we are clear with each other on our opinion about the matchmaking system. I remember Tobei said something about the admin team had forwarded the our suggestions on matchmaking many times, but since nothing's changed I guess it's out of their hands.
As for people knew about it in advanced of the poll, i wasn't really one of them. I only supected it from snooping around the CN forum, but of course that was done with GG translate so :P. But somebody playing the CN version confirmed it in the poll thread thou.
@ser: There are things that could be read in two ways, bro. I took the worst way.
Hopefully they at least consider randomising respawning point as an option.
This post was last edited by Watanuki13 at 2017-5-13 23:49 -
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- Watanuki13 On 2017-05-13 23:47:48
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Phew, I really had to take a walk after that. I guess I took some of the things you said in the worst way possible when you were probably trying to lighten the post up and I apologize for that. It's tough to read the meaning behind writings without verbal cues.
I think we are clear with each other on our opinion about the matchmaking system. I remember Tobei said something about the admin team had forwarded the our suggestions on matchmaking many times, but since nothing's changed I guess it's out of their hands.
As for people knew about it in advanced of the poll, i wasn't really one of them. I only supected it from snooping around the CN forum, but of course that was done with GG translate so :P. But somebody playing the CN version confirmed it in the poll thread thou.
@ser: There are things that could be read in two ways, bro. I took the worst way.
Hopefully they at least consider randomising respawning point as an option.
This post was last edited by Watanuki13 at 2017-5-13 23:49
Don't worry about it. ^^ Sorry if I stressed you ahaha :x
I knew you had a different opinion, which was why I asked what you believe was wrong about the system. I didn't want a reply that just links me to the thread, which was why I asked for a written reply instead. You gave your reply and all I intended was to defend my stand, whilst you defend yours till one of us is convinced the other right, or there is a stalemate due to differing views. That is what makes this fun in a sense. -
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- seiyao On 2017-05-13 22:14:20
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Having a random respawning point every single time after battle is over seems like a simple workable idea :D
Also, Watever problem we think that in x-server swb will bring can be solved. If it is about bringing bp into factor it can be solved, if it is about lag it can be solved, all these things is not suppose to be as they make the game better.
It is their job to develop the game and ours to ask and suggest ideas for it. I am also not limiting to x-server swb or anything at all, just whatever it works to bring this nonsense to an end. SWB is like a * simulator that havent even gotten out of beta.
I remb that when swb first started there was no random respawning point but they changed it becuz of obvious camping. So now they should continue to improve it better.
Don't limit our selves in a box guys. This post was last edited by ser***@gmail.com at 2017-5-13 22:39
My question to you is - why solve problems for x-swb when we can solve problems for swb?
if people are 'rigging' swb then shouldn't the solution be to solve that rather than implement x-swb? you seem to have more optimism in Oasis to solve x-swb problems rather than the current swb. But why? Even if problems can be solved, be ready to suffer through 5-6 months with that problem. Remember mood scrolls in the wheel that they announced they'd be bringing it back? It's been months for such a simple implementation and still no word about it.
For cross server swb, it boils down to this when people vote.. Do you trust Oasis to implement a fair matching? And does it benefit your server or you personally.
Regardless of which position you hold you have to respect that people wont have the same answers to to those questions.
Personally, I think matching is highly dubious since its by level first (As in which SWB instance you will be put into for eg. level 90 upper bracket, level 90 lower bracket, level 85-89, level 70-84 etc). From what i understood from their post, Power only determines which faction you go into within that instance. So factions will be equally strong, but we all know nobody cares about winning sage as a faction since the winning faction get such lousy rewards. Your real competition are your teammates in the faction. Its basically Oasis's bad incentive structure which will be the same regardless of cross server or not. Worst still Oasis controls the size of each SWB instance. So expect SWB fields with 100 people and good luck being top 3 in a faction of 30. Less rewards overall. If you want to gauge who will be your competition, a rough way would be to take a look at every 100 interval for time space rank. Its not very appealing. to me at least This post was last edited by sor***@gmail.com at 2017-5-14 00:30 -
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It sounds more like the anonymity is the problem, i mean i find it kinda easy to avoid group mates so yeh it's not working.
They should not show titles/streaks/battle armor/costume/medal, it's very easy to figure out who is who using those, people should all just be plain mains with lvl 0 armor. -
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