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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 45
- Posts: 105
1＃ Go ToI wanted to express my dislike and the gap between convoy and plunder rewards. Convoy is only allowed to do 1 SS ranked mission per day for 30 coupons, a loss rewarding only half. You can be attacked multiple times (even by the same person) during a convoy until the first loss. However, Plunder can attack 3 SS ranked people for 50 coupons per win.
Where is the balance in this game mode, obviously if you are at the top 10 you are only going to plunder SS convoys for your free 150 coupons per day. As much as I like the opportunity to recieve 150 coupons every day, this needs to be reworked in several ways:
1) Convoys are performed in the same way as before the 2.0 update, once attacked the run is over regardless of outcome. If you successfully defended you get your 30 coupons for an SS run or money for other runs, if defeated you get half the reward. You may still have the player need to run to the destination, but players can only be attacked once per run regardless.
2) If plunder is able to perform 3 SS attacks per day, then convoy should be allowed to run all 4 SS missions if they are able, without the requirement of spending ingots to do so. The other side of this (less desirably) is to limit plunder to only 1 SS plunder per day.
3) SS rewards should be more balanced, either both parties earn the same amount of coupons for a successful SS run, or plunder should only earn the coupons they steal from the convoy (which should be raised to 50 in this case, SS convoy 50, SS plunder 25.)
4) I don't know if its based on distance to travel, but there should be less of a dispairity between S ranked convoy and below. I frequently see two different S ranked convoys where one offers 120k gold while the other offers only 87k gold. S should all offer 120-150k, A 100-120k, etc. depending on player level.
5) Many high level players have adopted the strategy of just standing inside or just outside Konoha and attacked people as they appear. This feature needs to be removed altogether. Plunder should only be able to be performed from the plunder commissioner in the group base, just like is required for convoy. This would also serve to help the 1 attack per run change mentioned earlier. Another solution would be to remove the ability to attack convoy players in the area inside of and just outside of Konoha.
I'm sure there are several other improvements that could be made. This should suffice for an initial submisssion.
This post was last edited by Ryukashin at 2017-1-20 03:26 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 29
- Posts: 2271
I agree the reward gap is horrible. And I say that as a top 10 player of my server (in power, ranked battle and probably pvp, thou as ftp not 100% sure on the last bit). I don't plunder due to morality reasons, yes I know this is a "ninja" game, but konoha is supposed to be the good guys that have standards, supposed to be.....
Thou for doing so, I'm missing out 120 coupon a day.... that's a bit hard to swallow.... -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 1
- Posts: 34
First, I'd like to say that it's good to see people that aren't taking advantage of plunder. Giving up those free coupons for the sake of others is pretty noble. On to what I feel about the system. My biggest gripe is that there literally is no chance for most, if any, convoy-er's (is that even a word? lol) to defend themselves. Unless you're in a server where the top players aren't insanely stronger than the rest, you can't do anything. I have never faced someone with less than 45k power. I'm the second or third (can't remember) strongest in my group with 25k and the strongest has 27k.
I can't ask for help because there's no sense in both teams getting slaughtered. They don't even get much of a penalty for being rogue either considering they can stay in their base or be in a group the whole time without ever being attacked. On top of them not losing anything besides coins. Considering majority of the top players pay anyway, I doubt coins are anything for them to worry about. I'd much rather have a choice to do the mission without getting plundered for 15 or be able to take my chances of getting mopped across the floor by someone with 56k power.
Also, if even the top players can see how broken the system is.....how did this not cross minds before release? Regardless, that's the only real issue I have with 2.0 so far. I still enjoy the game outside of convoy. Except for arena, I just stopped because of how long it takes. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 455
You are forgetting the part where if you plunder you can then be attacked 3 times and loose coins, not sure how many though.
My group strategy is based on the fact that the numbers 2 and 3 strongest players on the server are on my group plus another 3 on top 10, so we ask them for assistance only when we do the SS convoy, that way we will have access to their teams to protect ourselves from plunderers.
Also the system is like this to "force" weaker players to spend money and get more power to defend themselves.
I did suggested on my server that no one plundered that way we would all get our free cuppons, but they didnt care, even tryed to get the 3 strongest groups to come together on that and since its a huge difference from these 3 to the others there wouldn't be a problem, and nothing, they just want the 150 cuppons.
This post was last edited by Glyrin at 2017-1-19 22:02 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 45
- Posts: 105
Plunders lose 50k coins per successful attack (revenge). So even then 150k coins for 150 coupons is a great trade. The system just doesn't make it appealing enough to do convoy unless you actually need the gold. Where as there should be some balance so that you can get about the same rewards total from each event and choose to do them on preference instead.
The current system is set up to favor plunder for higher level characters and basically force lower levels to do convoy as they wouldn't be able to beat a higher leveled convoy anyway. Its just one of those things where it was a good idea that just wasn't fully developed before release.
Edit: Plus how does it make sense to earn 50 coupons by attacking someone who is "carrying" 30 coupons, when only taking half the total if successful? That's just bad math right there.
This post was last edited by Ryukashin at 2017-1-20 10:52 -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
Hey
As a player myself, I'll try to reply to the suggestion given to the best of my ability.
1.) I can get behind the idea of the Convoy instantly ending upon the result of the battle. However returning to the previous system would remove a lot of the world traveling and exploring that it brings (Treasure Hunting)
2.) Plunders wouldn't drop to a single per day. As for multiple SS missions for convoy, I can get behind an additional one. The 3 plunders is a way to reward the top players within the server and allow them to feel that they are being rewarded.
3.) It's not a system that favors Convoy runners, Plundering is meant to be rewarding for the top players
However, the massive failure that people fail to realize is that plunders can easily lose out on their rewards.
Regardless of how players think they see it, SS Convoy should always be guarded with a stronger player, that way if a Plunder attacks (which they will), they'll face someone of equal power. And if the plunder loses, they lose a chance and get nothing. The downside is worthwhile for the plus it brings.
and 5.) I disagree, as convoy players would be smart and instantly Teleport to the destination within Konoha.
I respect your opinion
and thank you for your suggestion. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 7
- Posts: 1066
- Tobei On 2017-01-20 11:47:02
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Hey
As a player myself, I'll try to reply to the suggestion given to the best of my ability.
1.) I can get behind the idea of the Convoy instantly ending upon the result of the battle. However returning to the previous system would remove a lot of the world traveling and exploring that it brings (Treasure Hunting)
2.) Plunders wouldn't drop to a single per day. As for multiple SS missions for convoy, I can get behind an additional one. The 3 plunders is a way to reward the top players within the server and allow them to feel that they are being rewarded.
3.) It's not a system that favors Convoy runners, Plundering is meant to be rewarding for the top players
However, the massive failure that people fail to realize is that plunders can easily lose out on their rewards.
Regardless of how players think they see it, SS Convoy should always be guarded with a stronger player, that way if a Plunder attacks (which they will), they'll face someone of equal power. And if the plunder loses, they lose a chance and get nothing. The downside is worthwhile for the plus it brings.
and 5.) I disagree, as convoy players would be smart and instantly Teleport to the destination within Konoha.
I respect your opinion
and thank you for your suggestion.
I would get if it was a bit better but the problem is by how much, it's making people quit. Max coupon reward is 5 times better, or 3 times if you spend 10 ingots for second SS mission assuming you win everything. The difference is ridiculous to the point i feel they should just disable plunder till they balance numbers.
Also the risk factor is not really there i am ranked 20~ and i have only ever lost 1 plunder so far and that was due to my error, you can just sit in base and refresh till you get someone not from top group that you know you can win 100%. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- Dym On 2017-01-20 12:05:31
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I would get if it was a bit better but the problem is by how much, it's making people quit. Max coupon reward is 5 times better, or 3 times if you spend 10 ingots for second SS mission assuming you win everything. The difference is ridiculous to the point i feel they should just disable plunder till they balance numbers.
Also the risk factor is not really there i am ranked 20~ and i have only ever lost 1 plunder so far and that was due to my error, you can just sit in base and refresh till you get someone not from top group that you know you can win 100%.
How would you know it's making people quit?
From the information I know, the Convoy is received positively compared to the previous system.
As the risk factor is different per server and how balanced power is within groups.
Receiving assistance on a SS mission is mandatory(imo). If lower leveled players don't request assistance and still chooses to do a SS mission, can you truly blame the plunder? -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 7
- Posts: 1066
- Tobei On 2017-01-20 12:22:15
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How would you know it's making people quit?
From the information I know, the Convoy is received positively compared to the previous system.
As the risk factor is different per server and how balanced power is within groups.
Receiving assistance on a SS mission is mandatory(imo). If lower leveled players don't request assistance and still chooses to do a SS mission, can you truly blame the plunder?
I can tell by complaining in group and friend list and world chat, lower levels seems safe since most in top 50(at least here) are 85 and you can only see people 15 lvls below you. But we have 300~ level 80s on S17 and a lot who are just under 80, i don't know exact number but i am 290th on exp highscore and just under 80 and only top 50 (who are already the strongest people on server) are getting ahead by 3k-4.5k coupons a month which is like having 2-3 free monthly cards. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 29
- Posts: 2271
- Tobei On 2017-01-20 11:47:02
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Hey
As a player myself, I'll try to reply to the suggestion given to the best of my ability.
1.) I can get behind the idea of the Convoy instantly ending upon the result of the battle. However returning to the previous system would remove a lot of the world traveling and exploring that it brings (Treasure Hunting)
2.) Plunders wouldn't drop to a single per day. As for multiple SS missions for convoy, I can get behind an additional one. The 3 plunders is a way to reward the top players within the server and allow them to feel that they are being rewarded.
3.) It's not a system that favors Convoy runners, Plundering is meant to be rewarding for the top players
However, the massive failure that people fail to realize is that plunders can easily lose out on their rewards.
Regardless of how players think they see it, SS Convoy should always be guarded with a stronger player, that way if a Plunder attacks (which they will), they'll face someone of equal power. And if the plunder loses, they lose a chance and get nothing. The downside is worthwhile for the plus it brings.
and 5.) I disagree, as convoy players would be smart and instantly Teleport to the destination within Konoha.
I respect your opinion
and thank you for your suggestion.
1) The problem is that it's hardly fair for a convoyer to work hard and beat back a plunder (or perhaps more than one) but eventually suffer the losses anyway just because ONE plunderer beat him. There could be compromises, such as unsuccessful plunder will increase the reward the convoyer get, or a the convoyer gain a "confidence" buff for every plunderer he beats back such that the next time he fight one on the same convoy, he gains a % stat boost etc. This is unlikely to be abused by alts self-plundering as.... well... good luck having your alt qualify for plunder....
2) I don't feel rewarded while I am a top player as I said before, because plunder, to me, is morally object-able when it is optional like this. If you really wanted to reward top players, then ALSO make their convoy more rewarding so that they have a CHOICE. for example, top 10 gets to do all 4 SS free, 11-20 gets to do 3 SS free and 21-50 gets to do 2 SS free.
3) That's a horrible argument as it doesn't work that way due to it being 1v1 fights. In my server, for example, the top 5 player in term of single PvP abilities are all in the same group, no one can stop them, even if the 6th is guarded by the 7th or vice versa. If guarding was changed so that it was a 2v1, then maybe it would actually be a risk. And beyond the top 5, the others only need to luck out against ones guarded by very few strongest players, which can't possibly cover all the SS convoys(and one can check to see if the strong guards are online via friend list etc, therefore knowing the "safe windows" for plunder), the current * system simply doesn't work well and until it does, there is NO risk for most top 10 plunderers (making it only a matter of choice for those 11-50 at most, possibly 21-50) and very little for others. Besides, while one person can be unlucky and keeps running into strong * on ONE day, in the long run, chances are the top plunderers will not meet enough strong *s to have plunder yield less than convoy, making it a strictly better option anyway.
5) does teleport even work while convoying? I've never tried... It's not like it's impossible if that "cheat" is possible anyway. Furthermore, teleport is more of a ptw feature which, as it were, tend to be those who can and does plunder, most poor convoyers don't have access to sufficient teleport. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- Dym On 2017-01-20 12:36:46
- I can tell by complaining in group and friend list and world chat, lower levels seems safe since most in top 50(at least here) are 85 and you can only see people 15 lvls below you. But we have 300~ level 80s on S17 and a lot who are just under 80, i don't know exact number but i am 290th on exp highscore and just under 80 and only top 50 (who are already the strongest people on server) are getting ahead by 3k-4.5k coupons a month which is like having 2-3 free monthly cards.
Complaining is a common occurrence when someone doesn't like the results, regardless of it's outcome.
Compared to the previous system, Convoy is better.
And yes, that's the core structure of plundering, Hence why it offers those sort of coupons.
Most of the complaints are based on the SS Missions being instant losses due to who the players are facing, Yet there's a solution.
Anyway, That's just my two cents on the matter. -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 29
- Posts: 2271
- Tobei On 2017-01-20 12:22:15
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How would you know it's making people quit?
From the information I know, the Convoy is received positively compared to the previous system.
As the risk factor is different per server and how balanced power is within groups.
Receiving assistance on a SS mission is mandatory(imo). If lower leveled players don't request assistance and still chooses to do a SS mission, can you truly blame the plunder?
Oh I dunno about that, I am considering quitting.
Thou quite obviously for a different reason, as I perfectly CAN plunder and would probably get away with it if I did. I just don't like the direction the game is nudging players when we re SUPPOSED to be the good guys... Don't get me wrong, I've fine with "evil" games like GTA and evil-ish characters like Kurumi, Kerrigan etc, but when the context is... well....
That said, only considering, for now.... -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- PraiseLuka On 2017-01-20 13:04:30
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Oh I dunno about that, I am considering quitting.
Thou quite obviously for a different reason, as I perfectly CAN plunder and would probably get away with it if I did. I just don't like the direction the game is nudging players when we re SUPPOSED to be the good guys... Don't get me wrong, I've fine with "evil" games like GTA and evil-ish characters like Kurumi, Kerrigan etc, but when the context is... well....
That said, only considering, for now....
That's something completely subjective.
@Ryukashin
Thank you once again for the suggestion.
I'll be locking the topic.
If anybody has questions, Feel free to PM. -
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- Registered: 2020-06-20
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- Posts: 2
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