^You can win against most fire teams using sailor sakura and water main. Tell me how many f2p or medium spender can beat sailor sakura wm han and roshi teams .Add skill broken kurunei and you got a good team.Only problem you have is against a whale running susano itachi ,mm and shisui. They are not going to make countering whale teams that easy.If it was easy to counter, people wouldn't buy those premium ninja. lol

A lot.

The problem is that a ton of people got shisui out of the wheels and now owns itachi anbu for free and is not that hard for a f2p to buy masked man. Your sb team is ready for 10k coupons.

Kushimaru, jinpachi, edo sasori seems to me quite easy to gain, fuguki blitz with roshi too. You could say they aren't sb teams but are teams that own with ease han roshi sailor sakura and, to tell the truth, they could be used also with sb.

So how could the usual owner of han roshi sailor team run it in swb or matsuri if have the legitimate fear that every f2p mb or af can own him with ease?

Personally speaking with han roshi i lost once against a fuguki blitz with 25k less power and against a kushimaru team with 10k less power and in both cases by owning initiative.

P.S. you are right about the fact whale ninjas should have some kind of upper hand. The point is that the common logic would say that AF + the two most expensive water ninja available should be able to beat the same SB + the two strongest fire ninja available. Do you think hokage tsunade, kisame samehada + a 4th ninja of your choice can beat itachi susano'o, shisui, sb + a 4th ninja of your choice at comparable power if the sb owns initiative?

shisui, masked man, minato teams aren't that unlikely to be meet just now and as zelgadis pointed out itachi anbu now can easily take the place of itachi susano'o.

anyways, usually, if you meet a SB in a 100k+ field, that sb runs those teams and that's what i'm facing currently.

+1.

The issue is not little and oasis, by choosing to put those ninjas on display so often makes it even worse, overall because they continue to not give us the tools to counter them (normal itachi, normal kisame, yamato and tsunade sannin war breaktroughs).

i'm wondering how bad you guys must be as players to think water is weak. in the 100k bracket a full stack of water poison will kill a ninja in 2 rounds, add in mystery dmg and chases and you might kill a ninja per round.

i don't know why you want to limit yourself to 3 water ninja vs 3 fire ninjas, if you are using the water dmg buff then you realy dont know how to play water. if the mirror is giving your problems then bring your own, SB kurenai has mirror passive, and her myst has cleanse heal and shield, her standard/chase also has chaos . so you can relfect the chaos back and cleanse another ninja.

sailor sakura is a staple for water mains still, self healing on hit keeps her alive longer than most ninjas so she can tank all the dmg the enemy can deal if they dont ignite her, which anbu itachi, shisui, and fire main wont do when chasing a mystery.

and why the hell are you even talking about skewer? its time has passed, use shark bombs every round to chaos control the enemy team, it has a high crit chase so combined with nuerotoxin you can cc everything without a dodge/immunity, so long as they arent a whale with susano itachi you will win cause they cant move.

that still leaves space for 1 more ninja, add a gakido for bonus cleansing and shields and you can stop even the susano itachi from doing * as r1 u have 2 cleanse mysteries and 2 heal standards, which means as long as ur main is faster in m1 you can keep the enemy cc locked and they can't clear your chaos, the combo would be: shark bomb creates kd, main chases to high float, monkey king to kd, kurenai chases to repulse, sakura chases to high float, monkey king to kd, gakido. mirror will bounce 1 chaos so an enemy who was crit might stay free but even if ur shark bomb doesnt crit anything you will be able to chase and force a crit which then bounces to a random enemy because of dual reflects, then kurenai chase causes chaos as well, so by focusing his main you prevent him from using his mystery or generating chakra. if his main cant move then any other chaos you deal will *, even if he uses shisui r2 then kurenai will have the chakra to cleanse, so regardless of which cleanse you may have needed to pop r1(most likely hers because gakido has a team cleanse b4 each action so would cleanse her chaos anyway which means chaosing gakido would be the smart move) you will have the ability to cleanse whoever shisui hits assuming shisui didnt get hit by chaos relfecting anyway.

this team is pure f2p, no ninjas you cant get easily, sakura is the hardest one to get but she is still only 2400 coupons when she is in events. your problem isnt that water is weak, its that you don't know how to build a team to counter the teams you have problems with. fire is the weakest main right now, wind is better than fire purely because of dance, water is by no means weak, you just need to build around her instead of crying for buffs.

I emphasize because this isnot the place for discussion. the problem is not her but the problem is her skill. We have limited water teams and im even tired seeing all water teams mabui, mei, tenten, roshi, han. It seems these meta will never die.

let me tell you something: you didn't understand at all the point of this thread.

none ever said to limit ourselves to 3 water ninjas vs 3 fire ninjas, it was just a speculation by myself to hit the real point of the thread that is the fact SB lineups are STRONG against whatever AF lineup you can put on display. Doesn't matter what ninjas you can add to azure fang to complete her lineup there ALWAYS EXIST an SB lineup that makes the AF lineup useless and unable to do anything, while, if has to exist one kind of advantage should be the on azure fang side, since azure fang lineups, on paper, are supposed to be strong against fire lineups.

That said, let me see if i got what you said.

Are you really suggesting me to go against shisui, itachi susano'o/itachi anbu, madara/masked man, SB lineup with gakido, kurenai, sailor sakura without healing tips because i need neurotoxin to spread shark bomb and with experimental ninjutsu because i need to use shark bomb every round (so no poison tai)?

P.S. If you think for real that 4 stacks of poison are able to bring to ground 20k hp ninjas in two rounds means you don't know how poison works. You are talking about 100k zone, i'm at 106k power. My usual enemies at my same level of power out of 4 stacks of poison just get hit by 3000-3500 damage per round and they own 17-22k hp. 4 stacks of poison hit 7996 ONLY against somebody with 0 resistance.

If azure fang was strong against sb lineups you would see a ton of them used in top32 space time fights since sbs there are more common than mosquitos in a swamp. What Garv says, sadly, is true and i honestly do not understand why tencent does not release water ninjas to let her work fine.

Add a sakura sage mode, a kabuto sage mode, a swimsuit tenten another version of suigetsu, i don't know, but there are a ton of unused options that could work together with her, just add them.

oh wow ur so strong at 106k power. lol. my main team is 187k, come to s2 and see for urself.

and yes you did say to limit it to 3 water vs 3 fire, and i quote:

"I challenge you to find a lineup with AF, 2 other water ninjas + 1 non water ninja that is able to beat Itachi Susano'o, Shisui, SB + a non fire ninja of your choice that completes the meta.

And even if you find one, it works better with another main, so it's useless to run it with azure fang."

to answer this challenge i would use the edo hashirama hokage tsunade sailor sakura water main team, kurama naruto would be better than sakura but hes wind, if your hashirama is faster then you can interupt the shisui since hashi myst is an undodgeable aoe that interupts and he chases himself to steal all of the enemies chakra, he heals and cleanses the water main if she has the senjutsu passive so round 2 the enemy cant do anything, which means if they did use itachi r1 then you cleanse the chaos r2 anyway, it is impossible for a fire main team to keep 4 people ccd and this team has 4 cleanse+heal options so you will never stay ccd on any ninja longer than 1 round plus the larger heals thanks to tsunade will make it so you out heal his possible burst

you cant compare susano itachi to any ninja besides edo hashirama as they are the only 2 ultra rare ninjas and to get either of them costs about 3-3.5k seal scrolls to pull. so yes they r realy realy powerful, as they should be, and guess what, a water main can run that itachi too, both players using itachi and guess what they cc lock each other for 2 rounds and then itachi is meaningless since they countered each other. if you are 106k power and trying to fight against $2000 teams with $500 teams then i c*ready see your problem, the other person has ninjas that are more powerful than yours, try using the same ninjas he is using or spend more on power to make up the difference.

also, shark bomb has a high crit chance, so it can cc lock 4 ninjas each round, if the opponent is running the "free" team of anbu itachi, sb, shisui, masked man(not very free since mm cost $250 and shisui costs another $200, ~22500coupons) vs the water team i suggested for only 2400 coupons, then the water team still can cc lock 2 ninjas and trigger the dodge for the other 2, plus the bounced chaos which might hit a dodger anyway thereby cc locking 3 people EVERY round, and with that much cleanse u cant be cc locked without facing susano itachi(an expensive as hell ultra rare ninja who because of his cost alone should be op).

dont worry about your poison being weak, it will get to the 8k mark by the time u hit 120k since res scaling drops extremely fast, so it will increase in damage alot faster than your res will prevent the damage. i get hit with max poison damage and i have over 12k resistance. but hell, who needs poison when you can cc lock the enemy? if they cant attack you then just keep hitting them till they die or round 10 comes and you win with full health, so just use chaos shark bombs every round to prevent your enemy from moving, a groupmate of mine does that, it lets him beat anyone who isn't faster than his m1 since he will literally force them to hit themselves to death(if your curious about his team its water shark kisame susano itachi hokage tsunade, if you arent faster he will eat all your chakra so you have to queue your myst right away and hope he doesnt crit you since that will interupt even an immune ninja and he can do that every round).

you keep saying fire is stronger than it should be vs water, but if you use that same anbu itachi shisui main masked man team but replace the fire main with lightning then guess what, that lightning main gives your uchihas immunity and restsiance for 2 rounds plus bonus dmg and healing, so it hits harder cant be cced for 2 rounds and gets hit for less, and you want to complain about that team being too strong with fire when lightning makes it even better?

@Scarlettblue I am literaly the only fire main in my spacetime bracket's top 16 for the past 4+ months, we had lightning earth water, no wind that i remember and me as the only fire because i like fire more and have the power to force it to do well.

no one at the top tiers uses fire unless they REALLY prefer playing as a fire main, the reason for that is simple, fire has the 2nd weakest kit at the moment, wind is the only weaker one because it has only 1 useful talent and that's dance. and at the top tiers we can choose if we want to win or to have fun cause we have the power to win 90% of the time while doing something *.

Remove 80k power, come in the mortal world, and maybe you can talk.

Sitting on 12000 critical is not the same thing as sitting on 5000.

When your move 1 is at 5-6k critical (and beware that value is pretty high even at 100k power) and your common enemy owns 3500-4000 critical even in move 2-3-4 because that's what you get with rank 6-7 refines and rank 6 critical runes, that chance to crit is just a 15% + the 15% for high crit shark bomb owns. What does it mean? That you cc at most 1 ninja in average per round that could be the ninja you targeted too, so you take for almost granted shark bomb doesn't spread chaos at all.

What you say works at your power, not at the common level of power everybody else is.

Shark bomb high basic critical chance is just a 15% bonus.

Edit: as pointed out by garv poison damage do not depend on your ninjutsu and on enemy resistance. Depends only on enemy resistance. So it doesn't come back at 7k later(as if 7k on 30k hp is not the same thing as 4k on 20k hp ninjas...), to tell the truth, given the new treasure scrolls with late rounds resistance the damage from poison is going to be lower later.

Edit2: and no, top people does not go sb because they like it, they go sb because the life is too easy with him because there is no real counter that can make them fear even if they do not own initiative and if they own 10k less power that does not require ultrapaytowin ninjas. Going azure fang the way you say maybe works (maybe) but requires a very high skill and is wholly based on rng luck on the common grounds (60-120k range that's where 90% of the population is)

But you are one of the strongest 10 people out there so you will never understand how is the life of the common player.

Problem is not fire vs water. They want to win high lvl sage with low power and bad ninjas.

Anbu itachi ,mm and sailor beating water only happens if you got bad refines/stones/tactics.Roshi can break the barrier and han can eliminate the buff.MM, kakashi beheading sword teams could have the same effect as anbu itachi mm.

Water is still strong but have to use some logic now opposed to running azura, sailor ,roshi, han on auto and winning people with 25-45k power difference.

If you want to compete high lvl and high power sage against whales, you need to drop some money. Team 7 beating whale teams not going to happen ...unless in scion meme universe. lol

There are water teams that can beat susano itachi teams but they involve : sage hashirama, shark kisame ,hokage tsunade.Or you could just run sailor saukura, water main and susano itachi+ deidara/another healer. Better yet, WM,sailor, shisui + susano itachi...fire main running the same team, won't have a chance.Fair enough right.

i apologize if, in any way, i made you upset, i didn't mean to do it.

You are right, that lineup, maybe, can beat that team.

That said the problem for running azure fang in the chaosing spreading version is that you need a so high critical secondary stat in prompt move 1 that is in no way easy achievable currently.

Is not for me that i'm a low casher and not from a new server (server 302), for f2p is impossible (considering currently there are just 4-5 f2ps that own higher power than me).

you dont actualy need that high of crit for the water chaos, i have a groupmate at 145k power, 1 lvl 10, 1 lvl 9 and 3 lvl 8 refines total crit ~9k, he can crit me constantly with shark bomb even tho my m1 has almost 17k crit and my m2 has about 9k. thankfuly i am alot faster so i can just use kurama naruto to lock his main if he tries this against me.

you have basicaly pointed out your problem multiple times, you are comparing whales with ultra rare ninjas to non whales with normal ninjas and the whales are winning, which isn't suprising. its not that water is weaker than fire, its that the people u see using fire use it cause they like it and they spent enough to make it work, thats what i had to do. if you go to youtube and look at the videos of kawa( A guy in my group who likes making fun teams regardless of the main) you can see him using different teams with different mains, when he plays as fire he has alot harder of a time winning than when he uses anything else, when he uses water he wins far faster, and he wins even faster as lightning. also his safety margin is the highest with water, which means even if he starts badly that water main can turn the fight around later on, which no other main can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xclISAgpTTg (swb with fire)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZRTlLaTwS8 (swb with lightning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtqntI_-O38&t=281s (swb with water)

he has other videos too if you want team ideas.

also, please remember, when you ask for a nerf you don't just nerf the ninja at the point your at, you nerf it at all points in the game. Water heal when you first get it is basicaly worthless as your ninjas die too fast for it to save them, but when you have 20k hp that heal on a roshi can turn a defeat into a victory by keeping it alive long enough to oneshot enemies with his myst(i've seen this happen when the water main was weaker than the enemy). so a buff to it that makes it valuable early on would make it way to op later. nerfs and buffs are a tricky balancing act and usualy get taken too far.

fire was realy strong in the starting levels, second only to lightning since the game was basicaly who could blitz first, but later on his kit falls flat, the skills that worked early no longer work because of the rare ninjas people have or because of the fact that you cant blitz with fire like you can lightning or even water now, your ability to myst multiple rounds in a row goes away when the clone dies(forced death at the end of r4 even if it had full health) while water keeps it for 10 rounds and the scaling for the mains isnt as good as other ninjas.

so they are all basicaly relegated to support. and fire has 2 support passive and 2 support myst that you can choose from but u only get 1 of each, his sleep standard isnt usable with most teams because it breaks on tai hit which becomes more and more common for aoe mysteries so all he does is shield and reflect in the back usualy, while earth gives shields(standard) and double attack(myst also cleanses) and a dmg buff(1st passive) and a dmg reduction buff(2nd passive could also do more shields), lightning gives immunity dmg healing and can give chakra, wind gives immunity and myst reset(wind *s too), water gives heals, poison, chaos, more heals, and u even have choices if u want spam chaos instead of poison or more healing(4 different healing methods, too much healing...)

water and earth are the most flexible mains. lightning is the least flexible but hes really good at what he does and he has lots of ninjas that fill the roles he needs. wind and fire are not very flexibe, they require expensive ninjas and high power, winning as them with a team that is 20% weaker is impossible later on while water earth and lightning can do it with a bit of luck and a good team comp.

@JustSaying of course team 7 can beat a whale, there is a youtube video of team 7 winning against some1 around 180k power, lookup memonarutoonline on youtube. of course he was a bigger whale but it does prove that team 7 can beat whales. power trumps ninjas when used in large quantities.

i have ~17k crit on my m1 not 12k thank you very much. my m3/4 have 7k. i know what its like to be at 100-120k i had to go thru that point to get to where i am, also i'm not one of the top 10 strongest players in the game, i might be in the top 50 but i wouldnt be suprised if i wasnt even that high, the #1 power on this version is over 300k after all.

the people between 100k-120k on my server have from 7k-9k crit on their m1, so your just doing something wrong, that's all.

i played as a f2p on other versions b4 the na version came out, i know very well what its like for the common player cause those versions arent all that different.

u want an easy team to counter fire mains in the 100-120k range? here use sailor sakura, jonin minato, earth main, gakido, 15k coupon team so its not too bad. minato triggers the mirror so you dont need to worry about that ever, sakura heals you and gakido keeps you free from debuffs, earth gives shields to help keep you alive. you want to try and survive so go defense/resistance/life tactics/moods/ect. the team isnt about killing an enemy quickly its about surviving long enough to win no matter what. unless they have 3 cc for r2 they cant lock you down since you have 3 cleanses. equal power it will win against any fire main other than an ultra rare team. people have been using it on server 2 for around a year now since before i was 120k power.

if your main argument for why a team wont work is because it takes skill to play, than a game based on skill and strategy might not be for you, just saying. there are plenty of counters, people like you are just to lazy to figure them out.

also, stop acting like all i do is stomp people weaker than me, there is some1 20k power stronger than me in my spacetime group and 2 people less than 20k weaker.

try doing some math, 30k/7k = ~4, 20k/4k = 5, so 4 ticks of 7k dmg will kill the 30k ninja while 5 ticks of 4k dmg kill the 20k ninja, meaning poison gets stronger, and i never said it got stronger with ninjutsu, it actualy does dmg based on the targets max life( you can test with clones, apply poison the ticks will be lower even tho they have less resistance than the ninja that spawned them, which again you can test by hitting both with the same standard/mystery)

also i would happily fight u with only 70k power and i would win, 4 rounds max and you would lose. and thats simply because i know how to play and make myself strong and you dont.

Thank you for the suggestion offered!