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[ Strategy Share ] [WIND MAIN] Why the empress build is terrible

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 2
  • Posts: 3
On 2016-09-17 11:48:30Show this Author OnlyDescending Order
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Credentials: I am the top wind main on my server. While I'm not F2P, I am not a mega spender, my teams remain viable without an army of premium ninjas.

While there is no guaranteed win build, I found that these forums severely lack viable Wind Main builds and I notice a lot of people on my server running the oft heralded "Empress Build" (Kurenai, Wind Main, Hinata, Karin). I'll propose a few builds and hopefully more people will chime in with their input.

While most top level wind players on my server are in the know, I still see plenty of people running this build. Here is why it's bad:

1) Easily countered combo init. Requires your main to be alive/active for combo initiation. If your main is paralyzed, acupunctured, etc. you no longer have a reliable combo starter. As most wind mains are hesitant to deploy their main in the front row, the positional initiative advantage tends to to go the other team's front row initiators and your main will be disabled fairly promptly.
2) Relies heavily on Kurenai reflect and Karin heal for debuff clears. This gets easily overwhelmed by any AOE.
3) Deals very little damage overall. Karin poison is a turn 3 skill (turn 1 Hinata, turn 2 Main, turn 3 Kurenai&Karin) so you don't have stacked DOTS kicking in until late.

Early on, both Karin and Kurenai require a lot of time to collect. While Kurenai remains useful, Karin consumes a lot of resources that can be better spent elsewhere.

Here are some F2P builds followed by some builds that require some semi-premium (Pain Gakido) ninja. I generally prefer using reset along with low chakra consumption for rapid casts on both turns 2 and 3. Your primary combo starter (top right ninja) should have the most refines in order to maximize initiative.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tobi for damage dealing:
Main Skills: 33212
Summon: High float to Repulse (Tigers)


Why is this good? You can target your acupuncture by using Tobi's mystery and combo-ing into Hinata. Hinata is a great tank and absorbs turn 1 damage so that you can fire your Tobi damage skill, Kurenai heal/shield, and your main reset turn 2. On turn 3, you can fire Tobi, Kurenai, and Hinata all over again.

What innately counters this build? Anything that disables your Tobi from casting that can happen on round 1. Generally speaking, Fire builds that have their main on the top row will sleep your Tobi. Most acupuncture clones (or Fire clones that combo into acupuncture) will be taunted by Hinata, but Fire sleep ignores the Hinata taunt and can disrupt your combo game.

So the next question is, how do I deal with this?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The answer is simple, integrate somebody with debuff clear! Here is an example:
Main skills: 33312
Summon: High float to Repulse (Tigers)


Tsunade can clear the sleep debuff on Tobi and she also replaces the low-float to high-float chase on your main, allowing you to utilize the high combo chase instead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is probably the best possible version though? This one requires a premium ninja, but almost guarantees back-to-back casting of the Tobi skill
Main skills: 33212
Summon: High float to Repulse (Tigers)


This team follows almost the same combo flow as the first team, but allows for full team single layer debuff clear at the end of each round. While it may be tempting to cast the Gakido shield on round 1 to either Tobi or Hinata, I recommend casting it on your main to guarantee that your round 2 reset is guaranteed, allowing for maximum Tobi skill usage.

Used properly, these teams built around Tobi can utilize these skills (and his mystery on turns 2, 3, 4, and 5) as follows:
Turn 1: Hinata Taunt, Gakido Shield on Main
Turn 2: Tobi Skill, Main reset, Gakido Shield (Best judgement), re-queue Tobi Skill to minimize cooldown
Turn 3: Tobi Skill fires again having been cast the turn before, Hinata taunt
Turn 4: Tobi Skill fires again (cooldown has cleared)
Turn 5: Gakido shield on Main, Main resets, Tobi Skill fires again, Hinata taunt

This deals an unreal amount of damage and also will combo into an acupuncture every time that Tobi's mystery fires.

While this build solves several of the main problems with the Empress build, there is still only a single primary combo starter (Tobi). Disabling Tobi or paralyzing your main will severely interrupt your damage output.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is my high damage build for Wind Mains:
Main Skills: 33231
Summon: Repulse to High Float
Note: Ensure that you add the Kankurou (either GNW or regular) last so that his puppet is behind Guy. If his puppet spawns in the middle, remove him from your team completely then re-add him so that he creates his puppet after your clones have spawned.


To ensure that your puppet stays alive to get that juicy guaranteed launch, your deployed team should look like this:


While normally the Wind Clones are pretty terrible, they serve a purpose in this build: Orochimaru gains 20 chakra per defeated body including clones. If a Lightning Main runs assassination blade and blood thirst, you can enter the 2nd turn with 80-100 chakra easily! Utilizing the reset allows for you to cast all of your skills on both turns 2 and 3 provided you have enough chakra. While this build has plenty of weaknesses (mainly there is only a single debuff clear on your main), it deals terrific damage and is a fairly good starting point for other builds. The bottom row is stacked to maximize exposure of clones to the enemy; you want them to tear up your clones!

All of these builds can be countered, but figuring out how to beat those counters makes this game so fun!

I'd love feedback! My team is constantly evolving, but I wanted to end the scourge of the Empress Build once and for all.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 12:20:52Show this Author Only
2#
I've been using Oro's passive with the easily dying clones quite a bit for a while now, glad to see that someone actually posted about it. I'll have to try your lineups as soon as I get the ninjas required (lacking GNW Kankuro and Gakido Pain still). Personally, Empress does a lot of damage for me, but it's too easily countered for sure, I'm tired of seeing it always being suggested in this section.

Do you have Kisame? Have you tried using him with Orochimaru + Clones? I've been testing teams for this in arena, but I haven't really been able to find anything too decent.
Thanks for sharing btw!
This post was last edited by Amadeu at 2016-9-17 12:22
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 14:20:56Show this Author Only
3#
Only situation I find using empress myself would be in ranked battle, deals decent aoe and enemies rarely coordinate well against it, so its a cheap/effective way of utilizing 3 free-ish ninjas when you don't have full access to a godly 12 lineup.

But indeed, in 4v4, Empress is too easily countered/broken apart. The only issue I have with windmain is the lack of other viable builds that could not be done with another main. The typical prenerf-Tobi builds are so much better with fire main (you don't have to run kurenai) + longer combo/more damage, even with lightning main variant. (Tobi+Hinata+__Main__+Sasuke/Kakashi (combo linker)). The summon build is interesting, but I feel is about equal to empress power, and both behind Tobi lineups. So for a cheap effective team, I would not recommend wind at all.

One way to actually abuse wind is to consider what does it actually have that the others don't. It actually turns out that the hurricane attack is quite potent, 0 chakra no battlefield cooldown skill. So you can essentially cast it for free along with another 20 chakra mystery + possibly some others with a bigger reserve at turn 1 and cause a 4v3 situation. So while tobi can guarantee a Turn 2 wreckage, as a wind main you can potentially kill their main linker turn 1, which breaks apart many lineups that rely on turn 2 for damage.

Good Ninjas for this:

Temari: T1 hurricane jutsu + 20 chakra to team for another T1 skill
Iruka: Damage buff + Turn 1 skill
Wind Blade Asuma: Damage Buff + 20 chakra to team for T1 skill
Gaara: T1 Barrier buff, giving 40% damage buff to wind
GNW Neji: Turn 1 skill + 16 hit combo starter/acupuncture.
Shurado: High T1 damage
Ochimaru SW: Abuse clones for T1 chakra for other skills, proceed to weaken/kill with mystery T2 and can possibly chain if your target didn't die turn 1.
Baki: Ninjutsu wind passive buff, assassination debuff, strong T2 assassin mystery as well.


Just thoughts to consider, if you glass cannon T1, 4v3 becomes much more manageable. I feel wind is not strong enough to win without taking an early advantage.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 19:33:08Show this Author Only
4#
Is the high damage build good for nine tails?
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 20:19:13Show this Author Only
5#
This.


I really want to enjoy being a wind main, So I can try and use these. I have a good portion of ninjas to use currently, so let's see if I can try something with different lineups.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 20:58:45Show this Author Only
6#
As a former wind user who ran the empress team, the major problem of running an Empress team was you were way too predictable. Not to mention as soon as your main dies which is quite often, your damage output was pretty much gone.

Wind doesn't have many options besides raw damage. People like to say wind has cleanse or clones but lets face it Most players 55+ use single target or aoe mysteries to eliminate the biggest threat. Wind has the lowest health and defenses amongst all classes so they die really quickly. This is much more noticeable higher levels when our growth stats become more and more important. Stars are based off growth stats which can be increased by awakening.

One of the teams I used before switching classes is this. This team can be modified for any class, its mainly a Burst Dps team with some healing.

Orichimaru sannin (70 elite clearance reward), Tsunade sannin (69 normal clearance reward) and Tobi (survival shop or chapter 8 clearance reward).

I'll leave skills up to you but I would recommend shoot down rasegan to combo off Orichimaru standard repulse. Place is orichimaru and tobi up front because they can revive and higher iniative bonus.



  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-17 21:21:45Show this Author Only
7#
This helped me a lot with trying to build a Wind, after the Empress build failing me

Thanks
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-18 06:00:00Show this Author Only
8#
Talents: 2/2/1/3/1
Summons: Monkey (High Float to Knockdown)

This takes 2 ninjas from the deck draws (healer pain and GNW Kankuro) but it's absolutely annoying to fight against. As long as your GNW Kankuro has good initiative your opponent will be shut down from casting mysteries.

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-18 06:33:04Show this Author Only
9#
empress is the best setup for survival i find because you have big shields.
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On 2016-09-21 00:18:04Show this Author Only
10#
You haven't run into an earth main, with gaara, pain - gakido, and pain shurado... the amount of shields this team can get on themselves, and the fact that they can stack make them one ridiculously annoying team to finish off.

-

The empress build has nothing on that team above.

A bit more on topic... I agree while the empress build can be good at times, it isn't exactly top level caliber, but that really doesn't change how effective it tends to be against a lot of teams. This post was last edited by Slivaf at 2016-9-21 00:26
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-22 03:16:17Show this Author Only
11#
I normally run my Wind main with:

Chiyo 10 puppets
Konan Wind main Hinata

using monkey summon, female buff, big rasengan, shoot down rasengan, flower shield and clone jutsu
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-22 03:47:29Show this Author Only
12#
I recently pulled Gakido so I will definitely try this when I get Tobi!
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-23 11:44:30Show this Author Only
13#
sorry for asking an off topic, but how you put your attachment like that? mine always go at bottom even though i place it in the middle of thread

wonderfull guide btw, will try to use wind as soon as i unlock wind :D
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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  • Posts: 73
On 2016-09-26 06:41:34Show this Author Only
14#
  • s24 NaraShikama On 2016-09-17 20:58:45
  • As a former wind user who ran the empress team, the major problem of running an Empress team was you were way too predictable. Not to mention as soon as your main dies which is quite often, your damage output was pretty much gone.

    Wind doesn't have many options besides raw damage. People like to say wind has cleanse or clones but lets face it Most players 55+ use single target or aoe mysteries to eliminate the biggest threat. Wind has the lowest health and defenses amongst all classes so they die really quickly. This is much more noticeable higher levels when our growth stats become more and more important. Stars are based off growth stats which can be increased by awakening.

    One of the teams I used before switching classes is this. This team can be modified for any class, its mainly a Burst Dps team with some healing.

    Orichimaru sannin (70 elite clearance reward), Tsunade sannin (69 normal clearance reward) and Tobi (survival shop or chapter 8 clearance reward).

    I'll leave skills up to you but I would recommend shoot down rasegan to combo off Orichimaru standard repulse. Place is orichimaru and tobi up front because they can revive and higher iniative bonus.



What other talents do you recommend and what summon?
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-27 22:41:08Show this Author Only
15#
I love the lineup with tobi and Kurenai
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2016-09-28 08:43:45Show this Author Only
16#
This Orochimaru combo
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-09-22 04:49:32Show this Author Only
17#

Sunshine, none of the pictures are visible... can u please upload n share them again?

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-09-22 09:04:58Show this Author Only
18#

so cynical lelcats x3

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2017-09-22 14:03:55Show this Author Only
19#

i got wind main gaara hinata and asuma, what can i do to better use of my gaara

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