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- Danzō On 2018-11-06 11:10:11
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Keep in mind, there are extremes of not doing lvl freezing such as some people decide to level too fast and hopefully you aren't suggest that is a better choice than leveling freezing. If you level too fast especially on a new server, then you will be behind in the long run and eventually be stuck in the higher bracket of sage. I'm sure the sage brackets in all servers will eventually be identical with two brackets. A third bracket would have appeared in some time but due to a declining server population that every server expects to happen causes the bracket to disappear.
Putting power first before leveling is the main idea but you don't have to restrict exp compared to someone who stopped entirely. If you need to level to access a feature, go for it. However, give some time to increase your power before you level to the next feature. During this time, lucky board and missions should be your only focus rather than going for RNG ninjas. Finding that balance is what players should go after.
What you say is true only if a large majority of the population freezes their level.
Otherwise there is literally no way to be struck in the top field of swb for a f2p because competitive f2p are at most in the top50-100 positions if not lower. I am not struck in it by being at 200k power at level 105 and by not being a f2p (half of the times I'm in the 2nd field, half of the times in the 1st), I don't see how could a f2p be struck there.
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-06 18:02:14. -
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- Danzō On 2018-11-06 19:49:19
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I've seen several being stuck there because they chose to level to fast, which is why I suggested this warning. Of course this is only in one range of servers but I did say servers in each range of servers eventually begin to look the same. This advice does not apply to you since you know what you are doing. However, for someone, who level fast may not. There are reasons why I see 1-4 players with power 90k at LVL 100-105 when the average power is 130k-140k excluding whales (which is the majority of my top bracket).
Ok, said this way you are right.
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- Tobei On 2018-11-06 19:45:11
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It's not.
It's a completely optional tactic within the system that the player ba
se uses. You trade benefits for a possibility. As for the "bad" aspect, that's saving face for the person asking, considering their morality meter to what one player would do with the said tactic.
I personally don't care for it. The game itself is noted for the player to adapt to the style they wish to have. Regardless of others opinions on it.
Lets rephrase it: the fact you may have advantages by level freezing is, by itself, something that should not happen if not for a very limited time, because goes against the very purpose of making a game ba
sed on levels. The reason why happens is because, while the game is strictly level ba
sed, it's too rigid in it so may be predicted and people take advantage of features that are meant to help who was left behind for good reasons that instead get abused by who has literally no reason to do it by pure selfishness. Change some sc
ripts of the game and you'll see none would deliberately level freeze, by taking advantage of a possibility that is there just due to this rigidity. An example?
You are top 3 in a lower level swb field for more than two swbs in a row?
You are permanently added to the immediately higher field in the place of a low bp person that in that field was never in top10 last two times.
Last month you got sage of six paths rank in arena? By default for arena meanings you are considered level 105.
Did you get 5 wins in matsuri last time?
Then next time you are treated like if you had 10 more levels for the matching purposes.
Those are the things you should implement to highly discourage what happens, for example, in ICEx bracket of swb.
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-06 21:17:43. -
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- Tobei On 2018-11-06 21:31:47
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In that retrospect, you can rephrase the accountability of the game itself by having any form of advantages towards a certain side of the player ba
se. The other "fixture" to level freezing without having to change the foundation and sc
ripture of the game (Which I sincerely doubt that'll have for matchmaking as Level Freezing is not an issue that players complain about towards the Eastern side of the game) is to just increase the rewards given towards players at higher levels, (Which has already happened in 5.0) Either way, as I said previously. It really depends on the player looking at the situation.
What i know is that Crofighter and Gashi (two huge whales for who doesn't know it, since i talked about ICEx bracket) are still under level 95 and ICEx too is (indeed a good example for the other players...).
So, evidently, the rewards given in level 103+ fields in comparison with level 95 or under are not good enough for them to think to level up.
Is this good, in your opinion, business-wise?
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-07 07:25:20. -
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- Shyuko On 2018-11-07 05:49:25
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I disagree with you saying that the rewards were increased in 5.0. In what aspect? In my opinion, rewards have been decreased or replaced with pseudo currency in lieu of older, more desired rewards.
In SwB, the only thing that was added was everyone who ranked decently got 1-4 adv runes. This doesn't affect anything other than to get more players to participate. Which it did. Before they would get nothing but pitiful summon coins. But even now, this amount is almost hardly worth it.
In Matsuri, you (Oasis, not you personally) took away (replaced) the decent rewards (summon scroll, half summon scroll and half seal scroll frags) for sun coins. While I'm sure you will argue I could use the coins to buy these things, I think the better option would have been to keep the old rewards in there and ADD the sun coins. Also, keep in mind most people reach cap, thus the coins become worthless halfway into the week.
Honestly, the only thing that was changed to be beneficial was changing the rewards of strong approach. While adding moon coins to Team Instances is nice too, as others have pointed out, it does cut into getting tools for growth.
In short, almost every single time when it comes to "free things" that we can get from daily events, we get shafted. I still remember when we went over two months of not getting adv. threads from Strong approaching despite being told that it was just "rng" then, after an update, we suddenly got it every single fight. This tells me that it wasn't added when it was supposed to be added, and then we were lied to about it being implemented. **coughmoodscrollsgroupwheelcoughcough** Ahem....I'm certain that isn't the only thing we were misled to believe.
+1
You pointed out everything perfectly, even if for sa we could say that now, basically, advanced threads became even more uncommon as drops since bells and cave keys are way better ways to invest moon scrolls than advanced threads after you reached rank 7, so, de facto, none buys them now.
Btw, the months without advanced threads in sa were 5 (august - january, when we got another feature that magically unlocked them as a totally unexpected and unwanted by oasis side effect).
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-07 07:34:31. -
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- JustSaying On 2018-11-07 12:14:02
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Maybe they are just lazy to do long fights that why? No one is stopping other people in Gashi's field spending a lot of money and competing with him ? As for fair, they did spend a lot of money to get to that point so it is fair.They won't hardly break even for couple of years and they will miss rewards from some daily and monthly events.At the end of the day, f2p or small/medium spenders won't be able to compete with heavy spenders and they shouldn't be able to;if that was the case, they won't spend or quit.Nerfing their ninjas ,rebates or events just make them stop spending quitting or worse.Hey, if there is no reward for spending, who would spend?it is like throwing money into fire.
This is similar to real life, a person working in accounting job couldn't compete with a ceo making 10k day on his fashion sense; CEO doing 100k watch every month while account can maybe get 1 watch every 5 years. Pure communism doesn't work, that's why even traditional communist countries embrace some aspects of capitalism,mainly open markets to create competition.
Tip:Zenith is totally fair event for people who is asking for fair ones. So, by working hard and winning zenith you could somewhat makeup for you don't get in matsuri,sage,space time or cross server gnw.
Also power can be manipulated quite easily in this game:stacking pos 1,removing items from other positions lvl 1 ninjas as support .To combat such mechanics, they have to program large number of logical checks and each logic check takes a lot of resources.To run that many logic checks on thousands of players in a cluster within few minutes(hey u can register for sage 20 sec before it starts so) they need to spend significant amount of money on servers(we are talking about completely replacing the servers).This will cost couple of millions of dollars and who are going to pay for it ? spenders getting their events nerfed? investors who want best * for their buck? That's why they invented grocery store and sun/moon coins to encourage participation.With new system, people could buy what they want instead of being limited by what is given by the game.Let's not forget oasis is the publisher and tencent has already made the game mechanics like matchmaking.Oasis has very small amount of bargaining power when it comes to game mechanics... hey they couldn't stop cross server thing so....
Snip:f2p having the same benefits as whales should not happen and will not happen.If it was the case, this game won't exist...servers aren't free,staff isn't free and exclusive copyright isn't free.There are some games where only paying benefit is getting a fancy costume(pure cosmetic), but this is't this game and it will not.Moderators only have a limited power and these decisions are made by the company.They will not implement such a drastic change making their paying players and investors unhappy.
If you want to give an advantage for level freezing, then that advantage should strictly go to f2p and to casual players so that, maybe, some of them begins to spend a little bit.
If you give that advantage to whales then you are literally only losing the money they are not spending for the rewards they are getting with no effort.
None, literally none, stays f2p for 2 years and then magically comes out of the magician hat spending 20000$ to compete with somebody like Crofighter, while, instead, is very possible that a f2p that is always 2nd maybe begins to buy the monthly cards and jonin medal to be 1st in a lower level field.
Oasis goal should be to let whales face each other relatively often and to lure high power f2p in beginning to spend a low amount of money, by not discouraging this level freezing policy they are reaching nor the first neither the second goal.
That's why i said somebody like crofighter and gashi at least 1 swb every 2/3 should go directly to the top field regardless their level, because they should not have the sureness they won't be projected there if they go on level freezing.
P.S. "This is similar to real life, a person working in accounting job couldn't compete with a ceo making 10k day on his fashion sense; CEO doing 100k watch every month while account can maybe get 1 watch every 5 years." you said, but without the taste of fashion (skill) and without the effort to ask for a tip to somebody that knows about that matter in depth that CEO would always be less attractive, at first sight, than the salary man that has the taste and that chose the right watch even if once in 5 years. Here, instead, happens the opposite, if we have to take for good your example.
P.P.S: about game core mechanics you are right they can't modify anything significant, but nothing stops them from adding to every ingots only feature also a ton of unavoidable exp. Since, in their perspective, they can claim that also exp, theoretically, is an advantage (because it is power wise and secondary stats wise).
I wonder who stops cashing for real if this is implemented. And about x-server you are wrong, they could delay it as long as they wanted. They just didn't want to do and honestly would be suicidal to do it without massive server merges.
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-07 18:08:05. -
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- JustSaying On 2018-11-07 18:31:54
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Few happy f2p vs few happy whales each spending 20k+every month(or every week) on ninjas or 5 staring them. Easy choice u know?
Putting them in high sage won't make much of a difference because a person who can only spend 20k ingots every month won't spend because he is in a field with bottomless pit of money spending 50k ingots each month(or week).Spenders were against cross server events so you think they be happy about bumping their sage brackets in cross server?I saw 3 heavy spenders in my server(at least 50k each month) quitting after they implementing cross server events+ nerfing crazy slots.You touch sage and spenders will quit like flies.
Businesses give advantages to paying customers not to non paying customers,because they see they get a rebate and they are more inclined to spend.When would you spend more on games? when it is discounted on black friday or full price days? People like rebate and less rebates mean,less happy people plus less profits.People are getting burned out from spending and quitting, sp messing with sage/matsuri wouldn't help.
There is no reason to carter toward f2p or low spenders and make bunch of high spenders unhappy.Like I said before,businesses are mainly concerned about making money and keeping their investors happy.So anything upset their profits(heavy spenders) will not be tolerated? Think like this, so you want to spend more money to implement a system to make spenders unhappy and make them leave thus less profit? Who would want to spend money to lose money?
There are already systems in place to encourage getting xp and enough rebate for f2p(grocery store,monthly events,weekly events).If you find that is not enough, you are free to spend.If not, don't expect too much.Just because a casino gave a lambo to a high roller doesn't mean a person playing $2 slots should get a lambo for playing for 2 years......and no f2p/low spenders and medium spenders should not be able to have same rewards as whales or should have similar power.Then no reason to be a heavy spender?
A food store won't poison a customers tea because they want to make more money by selling his antidote.Why?because ,such tactics will be bad for company images and less profitable in long run.
You have to realize,this is not China where games are regulated...if spenders don't get a good deal they will quit and play another game or find a new hobby.Also, if a heavy spender stopped spending a medium spender can catch up to him and a medium spender stopped spending a small spender can catch up to him .Same if they don't do any events. So there is enough competition.
So far your arguments have been :people should be punished for spending a lot simply because some people can't spend or only spend less. A business would chuck a such argument towards jealousy just saying....
The choices were two: adding x-server features or make massive merges of servers (50+ servers in a row) because there were too many dead servers.
They chose to implement the xserver instead of massive merges for two reasons: better stability of the machines and to not let f2p quit.
If they made the massive merges f2p would have quitted in mass because they were no more able to get a convoy delivered without being plundered 9 times, no more able to get their 99% granted weekly pack in gnw and also pestered by frequent crashes of servers with 500+ people in it.
The game works because there are 5% whales, 25% of low cashers and 70% of f2p and while the first choice made quit a bunch of whales the second choice would have made quit all the whales because would have made quit all the f2p.
P.S. I never said people should be punished for spending, i just said that you should be punished for taking advantage of a feature that was not implemented to give you benefits. Fyi, my pal, if you have 270 people at level 105 you actually have 3 swb level 105 fields, where the whales are perfectly spreaded, is now that in many clusters there is only 1 level 105 field and whales are not spreaded and this is a consequence of people level freezing.
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-07 21:18:15. -
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- _Light_ On 2018-11-08 05:43:46
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i'm sorry but those that go against level freezing with excuses such as "you're wasting your time" "you shouldn't do it" "it's counter productive" "5.0 makes it useless" are those that have level freezed or have failed to do so and are jealous smart f2p/p2w players who are able to take advantage of it; imo the mods have the right to say what they want abt lvl freezing - because this game wasn't designed to level you up; it was designed to give u the option to :)
~ lvl68freezer
You are talking with an actual top3 in swb in the level 105 fields of his bracket and an actual top32 spacetime every time so i literally have nothing to envy about level freezers.
Do you want to know a real reason why for you level freezing is useless?
I can tell you one.
Between you, level 68, and a level 105 there are 37 levels of difference. Every level of difference is roughly 1% lower BASIC chance to combo, control and landing a critical hit on your enemy.
What does it mean?
That on par secondary stats you fail 37% of the times in starting a combo, landing a critical hit or controlling your enemy (I'm sure you noticed how many times you fail in doing those things in ninja exams...)
So i ask you, how many secondary stats do you need to overcome this handicap you are selfgiving by level freezing?
Every 100 points of difference in those secondary stats between you and your enemy actually let you overcome this handicap by 1%.
Means you actually need 3700 more critical, combo and control in comparison with your level 105 enemy to be on par condition with him.
1 level 8 refinement gives you 310 secondary stats, 1 level 10 gives you 660. Lets say you have 100% refinements. Are 700 secondary stats.
Means with 5 full level 10 refinements you still didn't overcome the gap on critical, combo and control stats in comparison with the non level freezer that just was fine with level 8s.
So, basically, you are level freezing just to get 3500 more initiative and injury on a single move in comparison with the non level freezers.
In the meanwhile you are losing about 1000 primary stats power per level.
You are currently trading 37000 primary stats power for 1 single move bonus on initiative and injury.
Are you really sure is worth it?
You may tell me: yes, but once i got all level 10s in move 1 nothing stops me from leveling up, and you are right but...
how long does it take to get 5 level 10s in comparison with level 8s even by being first every time in swb?
The average number of required refinements is 5000, i don't know how many refinements you get now at level 68 in swb, but i remember that when i was level 68 the first place reward used to be 15, so i take for granted is so even now. So you need 330 fields where you are always 1st.
Are two years of delay.
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- _Light_ On 2018-11-08 14:34:00
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I'm not bragging I was just giving my personal thoughts on it ; Well at lvl 68 I don't have to go through the stress of space times it's not unlocked yet; no one can plunder me; matsuri can be done in 10 mins; gnw treasure isnt yet unlocked but that allows me to save up my seals/coupons and focus more on me
ta ninjas ; Kage treasure is present at 68 but I like to go about the game slowly collecting ninjas (roshi,han,hashi,sage naruto etc) + I'm not facing level 105s I'm going up against lvl 70-80s where my combo + initiative exceeds those who have progressed further, look ik the way I'm playing isn't 'fun' and it's 'boring' but I have patience, I try to play minimal hours and maintain the same level so I don't go up against stronger pplz swb brackets are becoming a pain so eventually I'll level up more
There's no stress in space-time.
If you don't care about it none compels you in actually taking actively part in it, but what's sure is you are losing the free shop that is there and the free moon coins it grants. (space time is actually like ranked battle except for the week of the finals, you just sit there and you gain rewards by doing nothing).
Fyi, the way you are matched in every single feature, unless you are in a very new server, is exactly the same at level 68 as is at level 70 (actually the matching system goes by 5 levels in 5 levels, when you are under level 96).
By not reaching the very minimum of level 70 you are just losing free things and passives of your main character without gaining anything (unless there's some ultrawhale that hates you in your server and that is level 84 and can't wait to nuke you while plunders, that's literally the only, maybe, acceptable reason i may see to stay 68 instead of 70).
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-08 19:11:32. -
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- SomeoneRandom On 2018-11-08 19:39:45
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Just curious, why do you say freezers miss more stuff in 5.0 than before?
I find it is the opposite actually, since ninja test and nine tails give moon and sun coins which freezers can max even without those events. Same for jinchuriki and cat quiz.
Is it because higher levels have higher limit of sun and moon coins or...? How much is the limit at level 90-100?
I wonder how do you cap moon scrolls without doing decisive bonds if you do not get the free coins of spacetime, daily practice and ninja test. Because you know that decisive bonds matchmaking is not level ba
sed but rank and power ba sed, true? -
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- _Light_ On 2018-11-11 03:16:28
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meh no one cares about power these days its all about initiative and if i can hit 80k initiative at 68 ; lvl freezing allows u to get the hard stuff out the way; levelling up takes only a few seconds so i prioritize hardpower>easybasicpower idk what i'm saying anymore :3 but i like to freeze cuz it means im taking control of the game (me
taphorically) and most whales don't freeze >70 so i guess im lucky I SHALL BE THE STRONGEST LVL 68 EVAAAAH eventho im at 70k power i think i can get to 90k+ after buying all the clothes etc :') don't mind me i'm just waffling do what u want ~
If you have higher initiative than me but you land on me 0 damage because you don't own atk and nin you lose the same. Tell it to all those 200/230k whales that run edo hiruzen me
ta that i beat with ease even if they own initiative AND power advantage. Anyways i was just explaining to you that you can reach level 70 with no fear because literally doesn't change anything for you.
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-11 10:12:10. -
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- CHROLLOLUCILFER On 2018-11-11 06:58:27
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Well dude i think its still no worth the money you pay, thats the F2P way... freeze or else we need to face those top 32 guys every day.Even if we level up we need to keep up with the amount you guys pay or else its the same shif ...we would not even touch you guys even in hundred years.,,,,your relationship between players in 105 is making each other to pay and who doesnt will just lose. The amount of critical and stuff will be just nonsense if your power gap is 40k and above. You are really understimating the primary stats. Secondary stats are important but wont make much difference when you lack the primary ones.The ''common'' player you face in freeze is in your power ranger, and by freezing you will become better in that small community you play. I dont have to face you top 32 to have a nice and enjoyable game and even if i do in some events like gnw or space time i wont care i will retreat and just look in my way dude.. You will need to have your wallet emptied every week while i enjoy at fullest a free game in par with the strong players.
I pay 10$ per month, not 1000. I just invest coupons like if i was f2p, planning ahead like if i was full f2p, that's what let me be competitive even if I'm not a whale. The main reason why i consider the 10$ worth it is simply one: i want to get once every 3/4 months one good ninja without having to leave behind the power side like, sadly, full f2p are compelled to do.
That said i fully get your point. I just don't get the point of level freezing at level 68 when being 68 or 70 is exactly the same for the reasons the usal freezers bring in as the motivation they are doing it (matching system) and i personally don't think is worth at all to freeze before level 85 (that's where, if i was a f2p, i would freeze right now because at that level you have all the features and skills unlocked and you are 20 levels far from the current cap).
This post was last edited by Scarlettblue on 2018-11-11 10:21:10. -
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