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[ PVP ] Which is the Best Main?

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2018-08-05 20:38:24Show All Posts
13#
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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 163
  • Posts: 2514
On 2018-08-05 21:10:31Show All Posts
16#

@OP:

Let me tell you a thing: imho you are talking this way because you still are in the very early steps of the game, because, otherwise, you wouldn't think crimson fist is the worst one and azure fang the best one.

Why?


1) Crimson fist.


Crimson fist is actually the best supporting main there is, overall if we talk about full immune ninjas and is the best if not the only option for some of the current meta teams. Some examples?


a) edo hiruzen meta uses crimson fist because pose of duel is the only buff that stacks with edo hiruzen buff and both double standard mystery and shield mystery are what make it works.


b) kurama roshi meta uses crimson fist just because let it stack roshi and gives enough chakra to use both roshi and kurama in round 2 (try to put a kushimaru in front of a roshi that gets shielded every round while stacks defense. Or you kill it in round 1-2, thing wholly impossible on par power, or you are done for).


c) ag konan meta works on a comparable level if not better with crimson fist than with breeze dancer if your defensive stats are high enough because double standard let stack better hokage minato and let konan reduce cd as much as dance of impetus, but the shields let her survive in many more situations while they also boost her, so, if your konan is, de facto, stacked enough to be immune to move 2+ controlling effects, crimson fist could be a very op choice.


d) itachi susano'o, ag konan, madara: good luck beating it on par power if you use double standard mystery, giant katsuyu level 3 and super armor passive.


what you are, in general, greatly undervaluing is the usefulness of that shield standard attack (that is there every round) and of pose of duel + the 3rd line of passive he owns (the +def/+res one, the shields one, the super armor one and the +atk/+combo one, each one of them can be really op depending on the situation).


2) Azure fang


You are talking about how op azure fang is due to neurotoxin and is true.

Shark bomb with neurotoxin is actually annoying and is op against a ton of ninjas, but....

exist both avoiding ninjas and full immune ninjas and they are quite common and both of them put you in a very disvantage when you run azure fang as a damage dealer.

The reason why with next patch shark bomb gets boosted so that steals also chakra is because right now is too easy to deny her good side and scarlet blaze, the main that should be weak against her, is actually good against her because it's enough that neurotoxin is reflected back to water main itself to wholly disable her.


P.S. if you run a neurotoxin lineup you actually do not use 3rd chase, but 4th chase + koh/tortoise/crustacean and eventually bet on another ninja with a controlling chase triggered by shark bomb (like kurenai, pakura, mei or angel konan) to be sure to control the target you want.





This post was last edited by Garv on 2018-08-05 21:11:30.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2018-08-06 08:34:49Show All Posts
27#
  • BObox On 2018-08-05 22:21:23
  • either its PVE or its PVP, the key point is which main is better? so to remove unnecessary variables like the bp gap between PVP? i mean its no brainer to tell any main with 100k bp gap can wreck any team regardless the enemy main are for an example. with or without their "meta" team are or so. the bp gap thing doesn't even need to be added to the title for this even to be consider.


    and known the nature of meta. meta will change overtime as more ninjas are added or new feature added, patches, or just simply by people known the weak link/s on that team composition, etc. eg: chaos water main been ages since 1.0 i think, nothing new about it but people still using it, can it be called a current "meta"? or c.hidan meta same thing... dodger.. same thing,impertus.. same deal. so with that being said, whats relative are ur team theme/sync/whatsoever u want to call it vs ur enemy either its PVE/PVP. does it works? or not? assume they within same BP .. then its all came with changing the strategy that suit for those battle. or in simple words "there are no meta" whats left only the "strategy" u cant expect to win with 1 team build contain only 4 ninjas that on "meta" while the rest of ur ninja are lv1. otherwise they wont put 3 rounds on space time are they?


    so now we can focus on the "main"s, true..very true they all have pros and cons. in perfectly imbalance as it can be which is lame in my humble opinion.even they should have pros and cons but at least they should have "balance" thingies going on.. not like the gap between heaven and earth. quickly point out why some main does superior than others:

    - stat grows. example : wind man: nin dmg type having soso nin grow, while water main: nin healer/remove debuff or support type/poison/chaos..low nin grow but high resis and hp. lm: high attack,kinda high hp(which are in correct place). fm: nin dmg dealer not until lv 72 maybe, a debuffs main with 99% of his dmg are nin but lame nin grows.

    - skillset. example: none of debuff/nin mains are relevant..."NONE" vs immunity main or can give up to 3 ninjas immunity. or in case of 1 main he can give resis 100% too. so nin type dont even matter, and thats on 1 slot passive skill. wont even have to bother to mention a shield that only give 10% most of the time as comparation bro... its not even worth if ur enemy have huge attack grows with his std attack that can crit. or 20% hp of 2 clones=40%.

    ps: i cant put why wind impertus on skillset. since LM also have the "reset" skills is he? but point out 1 more case.

    -heal, 20 cakras, remove debuff and being immunity as in 1 slot of std attack. WOW... even watermain only do heal/remove debuff not to mention other main like earth main that only do 10% shield. in general other main only do 1 thing on 1 slot skill, but all in 1 slot and not even a mystery, is legit broken.


the higher a ninja defensive stats are and the more significative a shield or healing becomes because they are flat quantities.

do not undervalue the effect of a shield.

if you have 12k atk/nin and 8k crit and you have in front of you a ninja with 8k def/res and 4k crit a 1200 shield will indeed appear as wholly useless, but if you are in front of a ninjas with 14k def/res, 12k crit and 3k damage reduction then that shield is the chinese great wall for you even if is still, the same, 1200 shield granted by an earth main with 12000 basic resistance.

shields are exactly like healings, just that they can stack, they can't be denied by ignition (but only by clearing effects) and that they have no upper cap.





This post was last edited by Garv on 2018-08-06 08:37:55.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2018-08-07 03:32:16Show All Posts
43#
  • Luminai On 2018-08-06 20:33:04
  • Shields are good but they have their weaknesses as well. Shields can't be boosted, heals can (Hokage Tsunade, WM Healing Tips). Shields are a straight 10% resist (The standard anyways). In terms of Shield standard vs WM Heal, I feel like the WM heal is marginally better. Removing all debuffs, healing and has a chance of healing 2 people? Whereas Shield Standard is 10% with a chance of being 20%.

    While yes, shields can be stacked. Shields disappear after 3 rounds of NOT being refreshed. That alone makes them weaker. Heals do not disappear. I mean, sure, ignite prevents it, but the standard still removes the ignite status. I can still put a shield on someone ignited, but it doesn't remove the ignite so they still take the 1999 ignite damage.

    It's not so much as undervaluing a shield, it's more that comparatively, it isn't nearly as strong as WM healing.

shield1


i suppose this is enough as a reply

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
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On 2018-08-07 03:45:28Show All Posts
44#
  • Tobei On 2018-08-06 23:28:53
  • I don't consider LA/HK as pioneers of metas and how the game "evolves"


    They're generally behind UK/NY in terms of changing what is used and frankly, the gap between the top to average players are massive to be competitive

    UK being the gold standard of metas, while NY follows.


    Of course, each have their own experiences but from actual reviewing and generally seeing the gap between each region on a daily basis. It shows how consistent PvP is between each region.



    Currently, It's Earth/Wind as the clear cut standard mains.


    Fire for first turns and mirror.

    LM for Root which at this point is extremely null

    and Water (She's just weak at our state of the game)

generally speaking yes, you are right, but there are a few exceptions for water main teams

  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 163
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On 2018-08-07 21:24:29Show All Posts
51#
  • Luminai On 2018-08-07 08:18:05
  • And 3 turns of not putting a shield on Gaara and all that shield amount expires.

    1k shield put on a unit. They get hit for 3k. They negate 1k and only receive 2k damage.

    A unit gets hit for 3k, none is negated, water main heals it back. Receiving 0 damage.

    1k shield put on a unit. They get hit for 3k, negate 1k and get ignited. They lose 2k HP as well as 1999 for a total of 3999 HP.

    Unit gets hit for 3k, none is negated, they get ignited. Water main heals but ignite negates it. They still remove all debuffs, including ignite, and receive a total of 3k damage.

    Mathematically, water main heal is better. I was also very generous with the shield amount given by EM standard, since it's 10% with a chance of being 20%, I just went ahead and gave it the 20% each time.

considering that 3-4 rounds is the common length of a battle at comparable power that's more than enough (even if i hardly see a lineup with CF that is actually so bad made to be controlled fully for 3 rounds...)

anyways, maybe you are not considering the fact that ignition may be applied multiple times per round and that every time it fully negates the healings and is blatantly the reason why healings get boosters like healing tips (but are very rare...) while shields do not get boosters, they can only be removed.

in general the only teams with water main where you actually get fully advantage of the healings are full immune teams (and are the teams i was understating in my reply to tobei), in all the other cases healings are worse than shields (if we talk about endured damage) because ignition is simply too common while shield removers require, almost always, a direct choice from a player (except for han and edo yugito nii, but how many of them you see out there?).

that said, i don't understand why you consider those 1k shields as your touchstone. The most common situations with earth main are with boulder jutsu or with deep forest wall and you have to make the comparison with water main with regenerative healing jutsu.

If you use boulder jutsu you actually remove 1 layer of debuffs and you apply twice the shields so that 1-2k becomes 2-4k depending on your luck (but even here the luck is relative because the higher your combo is the higher the chance to get 20%, same thing with healing jutsu and the healing of two targets or with the chance that wind main summons 2 clones instead of 1, basically, at 10k combo you have almost 50% chance that that shields are 20% like you have *most 50% chance to heal two targets) and if you use deep forest wall you add another 5k shield (if you have 10k resistance) to up to 3 targets once every 3 rounds (exactly like once every 3 rounds you use regenerative healing jutsu).




This post was last edited by Garv on 2018-08-08 00:11:47.
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