what do you mean by saying nerf secondary stat? Like nerfing initiative, injury, critical, combo and control stats? Because it doesn't make any sense. The only way to "nerf" them is to remove them. And if you remove those secondary stats, the game is not itself anymore

all the hardwork i put to increase those secondary stats will be wasted so please no

I'm talking about critical rate, injury, combo rate, control rate.

Those are the secondary stats.

There's also initiative, of course, but what that stat do is blatant to everybody and has anyways to be a way to select who moves first, so is the only secondary stat i would not talk about, for obvious reasons.

Yes, i know there are also nin p3netrations, tai p3netrations, damage reduction and elemental weaknesses, but i would prefer to avoid talking about them because is blatant they should not be nerfed for how low they currently impact on the battle mechanics (if possible those ones should be buffed instead...)

Anyways, you are wrong about saying that the only way to nerf them is to remove them. You can easily nerf them by modifying their impact coefficient or their availability.

Currently every 100 rate of difference between the stats of ninja 1 and ninja 2 grants a +1% bonus to the effect of the stat itself, if instead of +1% they granted a quantity lower than 1% (0.8% or 0.5% for example) you would get a nerf of those stats (a nerf to the effect of those stats).

If instead of granting 665 of those stats a level 10 refinement would grant a lower quantity than 665, you would get another kind of nerf to those stats (a nerf to the available quantity of those stats at the current price).

P.S. i'll wait some more replies, now that i better explained what i meant before giving my opinion.

This is not an issue of hard work about those stats, but an issue of how easy is to actually get a goal with them and if is right or not that is actually possible to reach that goal and at what price.

For example:

Is right or not that getting 1000 more critical is better than getting 1000 more atk or nin? Or maybe should be there a lower cap that the current one to it? Or maybe should be there a way way way higher diminishing return on stacking that stat?

Is right or not that getting 1000 more injury is better than getting 1000 more def or res? Or maybe should be there an actual cap depending on how high are your primary defensive and attacking stats to it?

Is right or not that is possible to make a ninja almost immune to debuffs just by stacking 1 single stat at the current price? Or maybe should be better that at most you should get a 50%, a 30% or a 60% chance to avoid the negative effect?

That's the whole point of this thread and what i would like to talk about.

The single person hard work in collecting current stats has nothing to do with it.

You really shouldn't have to choose between Primary and Secondary stats. To do so would be idiotic.

Read THIS

Chinese mentality in games explained by a Chinese. That's the answer to all of your questions and the reason why nothing will change.

Nerfing additional stats would impact 0 in actual PVP unless you want every fight to last 10 rounds and unbalance the game even more by making 200 k players struggling against let's say 120k. In my opinion those stats are working fine for PVP reasoning. By decreasing refine values of them the only thing you will gain is less power for matches against let's say ninja exams chars. The 100 difference in those stats will stay the same as nerf works for everyone. You will get just a bit less of them which is bad overall in game mechanics. The game is already made well by devs regarding this.

Consider a ninja like Jinpachi vs a ninja like Kushinaru.

Jinpachi passive grants him +120% bonus to defense with 3 tech points.

Do you think is right that a kushimaru with 22k atk hits him for 3 ticks of 3700 just because the enemy stacked injury even if the defending jinpachi owns 12k defense that becomes, with the passive boost, 26400?

Then what's the point of that passive if the ninjas dies the same like if he had not that passive just for 1 single secondary stat?

That's how should be. Every game online has such secondary stats and in order to reduce that damage you should stack that stat aswell. In future after all ninjas from a lineup will have let's say level 10 refines and a closer approach to their oponents those stats won t seem to work like the way You described. In this actual phase of the game a move 2 to 3-4 will be teared apart by an stacked Kushimaru. That's how it is right now. Imo those stats work good and shouldn' t be nerfed. As about differences between players (aka move 1 vs lower other part's) is another story and as long as 3 category of players exists in here like in every online game business there will be descrepancies but this is not an suficient reason to nerf the mechanics.

In time You will see it won't be so unbalanced.

objectively speaking i think that something does not work right.

In the current situation what should be removed or at least very reduced in effect are control and injury stats.

Overstacking one single ninja completely forgetting about the other 3 right now pays too much and have no side effects only thanks to how those two stats impact on the game.

Reducing how control works would make an overstacked move 1 with 3 surrounding ninjas completely left untouched a very risky policy that would fail every time you face an heavy ccer team and imho would be right that if you want a double endged sword you may cut yourself.

Yes, this makes spreading a bit more valuable and so the average lengt of a pvp match would increase, and so? Where is the problem? Why you are allowed to nuke me just because you overstacked one single ninja? Pay to overstack 3-4 if you want that.

Reducing how injury works would actually avoid the common situation where you have the usual nuker with an aoe overstacked that just wipes out your move 2-3-4 because is sure to crit. You want to nuke the enemy? Fine, but why has to be injury the reason why you are reaching that goal? Logically speaking you should be able to do it if you overstacked *ions or atk and nin, not if you overstacked a stat that should come in play only as a consequence of a random effect. Or the effect gets reduced or the random effect should be way more random (in the sense that you should not be allowed to land a critical hit more tham 50% of the times if the difference in injury between you and the enemy is higher than 5k).

Give more value to atk, nin, atk pen, nin pen and less value to injury and you made the things working way more logically.

Secondary stats are good as it is, if anything they should revisit the control stat because it seems to be bugged, control failed twice in a row vs a guy with only about 500 more control than me. (once with mystery and once with chase)

Offtopic: What they should really look into and make changes is the delay, the unbalance in most events like matsuri/swb, revisit water main's talents and mysteries (healing tips, neurotoxin, poison tips, shark bomb and make those less prone to abuse by players), change ignite so it stacks again or does more damage because at this point 1950 damage barely does anything.

And implement new functions/features/events to refresh the game more, but don't fill the game up with new power up functions that fill the screen. Balance.

If they begin today to give advanced refinements at 2 coupons each one, would still take 1 year to get all level 10 refinements on all the ninjas.

At the current pace a f2p maybe in 10 years makes all level 10 refinements (if they spend coupons only on them).

Anyways, part of the issue is what Scarlettblue said.

Overstacking one single ninja currently pays back too much in comparison with not doing it (by paying the same amount of money), have 0 side effects and makes the other 3 ninjas just a cute surrounding that's there just to bring to move 1 ninja some buffs or some shields. Maybe what you says balances with all 10 refinements and all level 12 runes, but since that thing at the current pace would not be reached by anybody (not even 1000$ per month whales) before next 2 years, doesn't seem a good way to balance a game.

neurotoxin and shark bomb 'issue' is a consequence of critical secondary stat as is now.

P.S. ignition does not land 1800-1900 damage, actually lands 1800-1900 + all the denied healings (that in a case like mine means for example 6k from regenerative healing jutsu or 4k from standard attack, that is comparable to what 4 stacks of poison do). If your enemy does not heal it's a bad effect, exactly as how bad is poison if your enemy is immune to debuffs.

500 more control means he owns 5% chance to let you fail in addition to the basic 5% chance to fail and to the eventual chance to fail that comes from a difference in level (every level of difference seems to give 1% chance to fail). So lets say you face somebody 8 levels higher than you with 500 more control than you then you do not have 5% chance to fail, you have a 5% higher chance than the basic one that for him, in this case, is 13%, so you have a 18% chance to fail. 1/25 to fail twice is not that impossible, is a side effect of level freezing...

That said, to go back in topic, as garv told you, the problem with shark bomb is directly linked to how big is currently the impact of a move 1 critical secondary stat vs move 2-3-4s that in the top fields have 40-50% increased chances to be critted if not higher. Considering shark bomb owns by itself an increased chance to crit(that seems to be around 15-20%) you see that that 40-50% becomes 60-70%. Beware that the same way works their taijutsu attack, just that almost no azure fang uses it because is less optimal in many situations in comparison with healing jutsu or water whip.

About ignition you are wrong. If you face an heavy healing team, that not necessarily is your usal azure fang double or triple healer one, but could even be an mb with anbu special tactics, that ignition denies that 25% healed back after an attack. So his total hps get reduced instead of increase, so you actually landed on them the damage of ignition itself + the denied healings. On some gnw situations this may be way bigger than any damage 4 stacks of poison may do and you not even need to apply it 4 times to get it, you get it by simply applying it once.

Consider this situation in gnw:

team 1: edo zabuza + azure fang + mangetsu + mifune

team 2: kushimaru + jinpachi + edo sasori + mb with anbu special tactics.

team 3: edo haku + pakura + minato hokage + mb with anbu too.

In this situation would you swap the ignition for how works now with poison with guaranteed 4 stacks?

Anyway they need to make Shark Bomb so it's at least not used every round, because that is broken, chaosing everyone like that if you have more INI. Consider Itachi Susano'o 3300 sealscroll ninja can only Chaos a unit 2 rounds in a row, then come this main, ninja given to you at the start of the game who has the most broken mystery in the whole game (if you watch CN vids) when paired together with neurotoxin, while all the other mains attack mysteries are useless. She also has those heals that do way more than they should in a team of healers together with healing tips that can't be removed.

Also the poisons are bugged, in no way shape or form you should still be able to poison someone if they dodge it.

So instead of making her broken (more broken than Kakuzu since I saw vids of that shark bomb used nonstop for 5 rounds in a row until she won the fight), take a look at her skillset and nerf the healing tips, the poison tips so it can't land on dodge units, the shark bomb should be 2-3 cooldown mystery without any reset since it can chaos the whole team. (Itachi Susanoo is 4 round cooldown after he uses it twice for God's sake, and he can only chaos 1 unit like I said)

It's for a reason people call teams with that main "cancer teams", they give her too much, people abuse her skills and the support ninjas and you get yourself a team that steals the fights while also prolonging the fight, when in reality it should lose.

It makes the game look flawed, when you have a team that no matter how much damage you do to it, they heal it all back (only in the case of 3 supports), or when you have this water main chaosing everyone for 5-6 rounds in a row until the whole team dies and they can't do anything.

@xMihai:

Experimental ninjutsu reduces the cd of her mysteries before the first action in a round.

If she is blinded she does not reduce it in round 1.

Not her fault if you do not use hurricane jutsu, tobirama, cee, edo zabuza or any other ninja that blinds.

Moreover she does not reduce cd if she is under sleep or immobile and she loses her standard attack action and you can prevent it also by acupuncturing her or chaosing her.

An sb with oboro clone, immobile mystery and sleep standard full counters her by himself, not her fault if you prefer 4th mystery and ignition standard.

About poison... poison needs to be stacked to be effective, is almost impossible to stack 4 times it in a round and every debuff removal effect wholly removes all the stacks, if you add to that that against full immume ninjas is useless you got how limited its effect is.

The reason why poison tai let you attach poison also to evading ninja is a matter of balancement. If this did not happen would be literally impossible to attach 4 stacks of poison to an evading ninja in less than 3 rounds and considering how easy is to remove it if this happened the average damage the evading ninja would endure against azure fang teams would be lower than the average damage other lineups would be able to land on them.

I don't think it would be fair for players that spent already tons of money into this game to get those secondary stats nerfed. Remember in order to get a tool from refine lv 9 to 10, it costs around 30k cp/ingot assuming you don't have advanced refine rune saved.

Jib Edit: This was edited a little just to better reflect the forum rules. Please do contact me if you have any questions.

I am pretty sure garv would be perfectly fine with it if they granted to whoever spent a ton on them after an eventual nerf a boost to atk and nin comparable to the advantage they currently gained thanks to critical and injury. And still is not that who spent loses the advantage with the nerf, they just lose a part of it and they would still be ahead others, just that they would lose the sureness to crit or the granted immunity of their move 1.

That said we just got two nerfs to stats in the past, so is not something unheard of (two times on ninja tools).

This discussion is moot since Oasis does not have the rights to tamper with game code. They only decide the speed, order and cost of events and updates.

Jib Edit: We are still our separate version, so changes that happen to us can be influenced by feedback. It is not just dictated by other versions.