A Gaara alt before Dosu? In *my* Naruto Online?

...that'd be the most painful irony ever.

Do you actually have any reasoning to these claims, or is this just being said to get me riled up?

(And for clarity, he only beat Zaku.)

Zaku wasn't the strongest. Zaku had more destructive power, no doubt. But Dosu was smarter, more tactical, knew how to keep his ego in check (and I have to argue that him taking on Gaara was an out of character moment not like what he would do) and had a pretty hax ability in of itself.

You say that, yet Dosu was able to beat Lee, who completely curbstomped Sasuke.

Also, it's unfair to compare Dosu to later villains such as Pain and Obito mainly because they weren't relevant at the time. Remember, these are the days where the Hokage and maybe the Sannin are the most powerful ninja we know. In context, compared to the other applicants, Dosu had potential to be great. Hell, Sasuke even said that Dosu was one of the "elite" applicants, along with Neji, Lee, and Gaara!

And in this context, does making physical objects explode with SOUND ALONE not sound hax? That has to be some pretty high-powered sound. To quote a guy on Reddit:

"Later application of sound based attacks are the multiple cases of audio genjutsu and a few anime only orochimaru jutsus and that one sage jutsu kabuto used that used sound to paralyze itachi and sasuke. the audio genjutsu's are so strong they incapacitate s rank shinobi like paths of pein, itachi and sasuke. If sound works the same way it does in the narutoverse as it does in our world (which i have no reason to assume it doesnt) can be used in extremely effective ways, here's a quote regarding the launch of the Saturn V " The launch of a Saturn V rocket, for example, produces around 220 decibels, which ignites grass a mile away with the sound alone. The launch pad has to dump 900,000 gallons of water a minute below the rocket for absorption or the reflected sound waves would rip the rocket apart" and only 200 decibels is the threshold for death, so in the 200's dosu can start *ing stuff up,setting things on fire, killing people instantly etc.

If dosu lived long enough and managed to escape being killed by orochimaru or gaara i think he would go on to easily be A to S rank level, all depending on how strong he can make his control over sound, if he can get to the 200's he's s rank, if he's stuck only at eardrum bursting level (150 or so) he is B-A rank, anything higher than the 200's and he starts getting absurd and i don't think he could."

Think about it.

Remember, in the Dosu era there was no Totsuka blade, no Rinnegan, no Kotoamatsukami etc. When I say "hax" I mean specifically in the context of the exam arc. Apologies, I should've clarified that. At the same time though, I feel like that kind of power can't be ignored even in the later Shippuden arcs where the powercreep is rampant.

Okay, I unfortunately don't have time to fully reply yet but man, saying "like they should've" really makes you sound like pre-character development Neji.

I'm sick now and my head is throbbing but whatever, it isn't good to leave loose ends like this. I'll address each of the comments individually.

"In the context of the game, if 200 decibels of sound is enough to kill someone then surely a ball of energy made out of wind chakra can surely cut a hole into someone as well? Yet this doesn't happen as the ninjas in the show are clearly stronger and more durable than the average person in the real world.

I don't think comparing it to the real world is a very good example. xD"

That's a very good point. Yet, at the same time, if the ninjas in the show are clearly stronger and more durable than the average real person (as they are), that would, in theory, also mean that it would take more decibels to even throw off a ninja's hearing in the first place. If we're not going to look at the extremes in a realistic way, we can't look at the basics (Dosu's demonstrated abilities) realistically as well. Either way, it balances out because the change in requirements for damaging is identical.

At the same time, however, some things remain the same. Just because the ninjas of the Narutoverse are stronger doesn't mean the laws of physics are different. In real life, sounds loud enough to move objects have to be above 194 decibels - at that point they become more like sound shockwaves that can tear through whatever. Sure, they might not be able to tear through the Naruto ninjas. But it's still pretty powerful in its own right – and if Dosu can easily throw off hearing or cause nausea, even to physically enhanced humans, wouldn't that mean he could, with training and time, easily surpass this?

Secondly, if we can't compare to the real world, what can we compare to? Is it plausible to compare Dosu's powers to Kohrak-Kal of the BIONICLE universe? For some context, Kohrak-Kal could create sonic force fields and objects made of sound - just because of that it was considered one of the deadliest villains of its arc. Kohrak-Kal's feats include taking down Lewa Nuva, a being with great innate power himself, with an object made of sound alone, and ripping through Exo-Toa armor (a suit of armor tailor-made for the Makuta species, who are extremely impressive in their own right) effortlessly with sound.

And Kohrak-Kal's final fate involves its sound powers being amplified beyond its control - to the point that its body was shaken apart by sound at an atomic level and the atoms of its body *tered, effectively dissolving itself. Sure, that's no kotoamatsukami but brushing it off as "weak" and not worthy of consideration is wrong in my opinion.

If not Kohrak-Kal, how about Black Bolt from the Marvel comics, or Banshee from X-Men? What about Fairy Tail's sound magic?

"Yep, these guys have some stronger bodies than normal people 200+ decibels of sound might hurt them just a little bit and that's it, so many people got burned and ended up with few scratches lol, seem like normal fire doesn't work, only Amaterasu."

"And the funniest part is, some characters probably have attacks that exceed 200 decibels along with the attack itself.........."

Any specific examples of ninjas shrugging off normal fire like nothing? And what attacks would have that level of decibels?

"BTW make Dosu, a secondary character (I don't see him as a villain) at the beginning of the series as strong as you like, that just means they gotta make Naruto and Sasuke way stronger than that to beat him with ease like they should in the first place."

I already said this up there - this makes you sound like pre-character development Neji, going off about fate and how people are destined to be a certain way. As a creative writer myself I don't think it's right to waste perfectly good characters like that. If you're going to make a character, they should forge their own path rather than just staying confined to whatever story boundaries you set up.

Besides, I don't think minions usually get character development like Dosu does.

"Heh, well you see where they go with these series, stronger characters appear that would destroy the old ones in a second and they just make Naruto and Sasuke stronger to beat them. Right now Naruto the ninja anime is like Naruto the Alien Transformer Ninja or something."

I think the funniest thing about this statement is how misguided your application of Dosu to Naruto and Sasuke specifically is. If we're looking at things from a very anti-Team Dosu, simplified perspective, Team Dosu's contributions to the story are basically this:

- Team Dosu attacks Kabuto to show their powers off

- Team Dosu attacks Sakura in the forest. Kin triggers Sakura's character development, making her a better character.

- Sasuke becomes stronger and Zaku gets used as a chew toy to show off Sasuke's new power.

- Zaku gets used as a chew toy to show off Shino's cunning. Kin gets used as a chew toy to show off Shikamaru's mind. Dosu beats Choji lol

- Dosu gets used as a chew toy to show off Gaara.

Notice how there's no direct interaction between Dosu and Naruto or Sasuke? In my opinion it's wrong to pigeonhole him as a minion used to show off Naruto's and Sasuke's power "like he should" as you say. The closest thing to this is when CM Sasuke awakens and Dosu realizes how powerful he is, but that doesn't really count since both Zaku and Kin were down and Dosu was pretty worried about his teammates' safety.

Also, I think it's funny how you had to make three posts in a row for this rather than just editing your post, idk

EDIT: Oops, I missed a part.

"At that point Orochimaru was the real villain and even him later in the series was fodder, being beaten by Itachi 2 times in less than 5 seconds, the second time was done for good with Totsuka Blade like I said, real hax ability, and couldn't keep coming back to life until Sasuke unsealed the last curse mark on Anko."

I never said/meant that Dosu was the "real villain" of the arc. What I was trying to go at was the fact that Dosu had potential to become a more interesting and better character, and even influence the series for the better - but instead he gets offed unremarkably in an out of character moment as a last ditch effort to show off Gaara.

Huh? No, not necessarily. I don't see any story reason for Dosu killing Tendo. What I was thinking is something like these possibilities. I haven't thought through them completely, but they're an ok start I think.

If we want to still show off Gaara and keep the out of character moment, have Dosu try to fight Gaara, maybe even in the first round of the Preliminaries rather than Lee, realize he's overpowered, and get hurt – not killed, but hurt enough that he can't take the exam. Recuperating in the infirmary he'd probably realize the *ity of his plan and try to contact the Hokage or the authorities about Orochimaru's plan for the Konoha Crush instead. Kabuto probably tries to assassinate him once or twice in the infirmary, but is foiled by someone. (Ibiki? Kakashi?) Depending on when in the series he realizes this, either it's too late to do anything and nothing changes (adding a sense of almost tragicness but not changing much) or the Hokage comes prepared and decently counteracts Orochimaru. Naruto would probably show up and use Talk no Jutsu to convince Dosu to defect to the leaf or something I'm not sure. My head is still kinda clogged ugh

Alternatively, he fights back. The sound goes through the sand and hits Gaara - not killing him, but just debilitating him. Baki and Kabuto show up and threaten Dosu and he gets out of there. Gaara out of commission means no Naruto talk no jutsu therapy on him until maybe later in the series, or even Shippuden, which means a tougher and more strained Leaf-Sand relationship that would complicate the Sasuke retrieval arc. Choji and Neji might die in their fights. I mean, they don't do much in Shippuden if I'm not mistaken – Neji getting a redemption-equals-death thing with his recent character development is more fitting imo than doing like nothing in forever, getting forgotten and dying like fodder, and Choji finally finding belief in himself too. Plus it would be interesting to see how Hinata copes with losing her cousin, and Shikamaru his best friend. Which would leave the Tokubetsu Jonin like Aoba/regular Jonin like Asuma/Kurenai to maybe get more screentime trying to save Kiba and/or Shikamaru. I personally imagine Dosu helping out here, perhaps even having a bit of development himself since I presume he has history with at least one of the Sound Four (Tayuya would probably be the most fitting due to their similar powers). Guy would show up to help Lee and the two would survive by the skin of their teeth against Kimimaro.

Or he just goes through the exam without trying to take out its most lethal participant... he'd probably give Shikamaru a good fight but my gut says he'd lose by a slim margin.

And tbh I haven't thought too much about Shippuden. Personally, the lack of Dosu made me a lot less interested in Shippuden so I don't know it as well. Sorry xD