I prefer to mood Kimimaro in life as his Defense and Resistance can scale.

ive had kiminmaru die round 1 very easly by a midnight blade running less power then me

well no it depends what basic attack he has , and she doesnt have a 100% chance to deflect the attack

I really find this hard to believe.

Midnight blade does not ignore defense. What we have is a mis-translation. The actual skill effect for his first standard is to ignore all taunt effects, attacking what is in front of him.

Roshi is not a tank at the start of a match. He need to stack up to actually tank hits.

Roshi is weak to lightning, making him very easy pickings for midnight blade if parked right infront of him.

Kimi on any mood other than +HP is a great way to reduce his ability to tank hits, especially against ninjas like midnight blade, who use tai/nin mixed standards.

Equal power does not mean equal stats. Most dedicated midnight blade users have a highly skewed power distribution, with the main having significantly more power than other ninjas in the lineup.

Doesn't seem to me he implied in any way that super armor qualifies a ninja as a tank, infact he mentioned kimimaro (that doesn't own superarmor), gaara shippuuden and han, he didn't say ay or sasuke susanoo, he specifically talked about 3 real tanks one of them didn't even own super armor.

What qualifies a tank is not at all a stacking defense/resistance buff, but how much he is able to endure hits in every moment, also round 1 and 2, if equipped with the same equip another ninja c*e and roshi's basic stats, you can say what you want, qualify him as a dps, not as a tank. Roshi have relatively poor hp and comparable atk and ninjutsu with resistance and defense by default, how can you consider him a tank if even after 5 hits endured still owns less defense in comparison with a true tank like han or gaara normal and after he is mooded for hp owns 4-5k less hp than them?

For right setups he didn't mean 1 single only setup that requires one pay to win ninja, but a variety of setups. Roshi as a 'tank' survives ONLY if you mooded him for hp, put him in a +hp tactics square and if you run azure fang and hokage tsunade since, after all the shields removal ninjas we gained, he doesn't anymore survive in the immortal lineup with earth main if is in front row, on par power, if he is targeted directly, but who knows why han survives, even if for you he isn't a tank.

With your idea of tanks then han is not a tank, even if owns an evasion passive, a mystery that removes a ton of damage buff and super armor because don't own stacking defense or resistance, nor you seem to consider gaara one even if his basic hp, resistance and defense are high and he self gives shields every round.

And no roshi doesn't survive in any 'right' setup except the one i said or in han roshi azure fang sailor sakura one, where han that's a real tank endures half of his hits and reduces the damage output of the enemy, unless is behind another ninja or clone. So how can he be a tank if without a ton of shields he dies if he is comboed or hit in round 1 by almost only pure ninjutsu effects?

Or are you telling me that a roshi on front row targeted with masked man mystery in round 1 against the itachi susanoo, masked man, onoki, sb lineup survives if get hit also by itachi twice? because han survives.

Why are you saying your tank is being killed by standard attacks when he is being killed by a mystery.

Because saying "My ninja got one-shot with mystery" makes lightning main suddenly sound very balanced, right?

Most of the time LM is either going 1 of 2 standards. The one for increased crits and chance to cause knockdown and attacking the lowest life ninja with a chance to cause High Float. Hardly anyone runs the 1st Standard Attack.

Also from what I seen, 90% of the time LM can't touch her when her mystery is up.

I also highly doubt you had YOUR Kimimaro get taken down by LM weaker than you. Especially when he generally blocks the 1st attack on him which increases his defense and resistance by 7% or 8% and keeps increasing reducing the damage the LM would do especially if they have less power.

But you forget about 1 thing, Tanks are reliant on their support. They have to have a healer for them to function at their best. Especially with tanks that scale. You can't run 3 DPS and a Tank and expect the Tank to live long.

I have seen quite a few (and I too, personally) run the first standard for not as much to ignore taunt, but simply for chase purposes. (The ignore taunt comes as a bonus for me, really) On the other hand, I hardly see people run the standard targeting lowest hp, most likely due to the fear of targeting clones and essentially wasting your first turn and pretty much all your damage potential.

I see people (On my server) Run the double attack talent instead of RoW, which when they kill a clone they can attack again and they keep going til all clones are generally dead. Of course they have other ninjas on their team to buff so they wouldn't chase on clones.

better than your whole team being one shot by mei or ten ten

There i give you anti blitz... kills 15k power greater with tested and verified Space time auto battles, 80 % sucess rate, 100 % in manual PVP fights.

Use shikamaru MOP instead of GNW sakura and use Sailor sakura instead of kurenai, either one works, this team got me into my Space time top 128, i basically just went for LM blitz lineups.
Mystery with (shikamaru MOP)
Giant rasengan
Standard: rasengan barrage
Chase: according to what you have, Dog of hell, Kirin (less preferred), Flood Dragon all work well, Basically try to go for repulse.
Passive1 : flower guard
Passive2: Queen momentum or *y harem jutsu.

(cant post the Mop lineup cuz it has the name of the guy i defeated)

hope it helped with your problem.

P.S - your Spot 2 should be the fastest.

Super Armor, Shield baring and standard dodge don't bare realistic consideration that a character is a "true tank". They're tanks, just not to the bone.

Gaara and Han require additional support to withstand a beating in the front. The only "real" tank that's used considerably is Roshi because he does the job quite well. But I'll rebuke your points.

Your first statement is contradicting to your later argument. Scaling Defense/Resistance makes anybody a tank. Hence why Hokage Buffs in GNW-Ranked battle is heavily valued, and why it's stapled to run Defensive Knowledge on Earth Main. 60% Resistance and 20% Defense can make even the squishy targets (Hokage Tsunade) durable.

Also no, Roshi has the highest ceiling in terms of Defense/Ninjutsu scaling, higher than Kimimaro. Either you haven't experienced higher level PvP Roshi's to compare or you're basing your points on a mute mode (Arena) to strengthen your value. If Arena is your bases, Then sure! You're completely right about Roshi being a lightweight. But that's not his true values nor his base. It's artificially lower base states to compensate ninjas. With that out of the way to your next point.

This is where I'll say your inexperience is completely showing. Roshi's best survivability mood is actually +Defense (You know, to cover his greatest weakness T1 being Blitz) and with Earth Main, he practically becomes unkillable T1 with a fully engraved LM blitz. And yes, I've faced stronger blitz comps to test this (103k BP vs 114k)

But like I said, if you're basing this on Arena, there's little to no argument to be made as I can't combat non-actual PvP

Just to wrap this up. Roshi's self-sustainability is apart of why he's considered a true tank. He's everything you want in a bruiser/tank. Ablities to take hits/deal damage/self sustain and punishment on hits. This kit is perfect for his role.

Just to compare Roshi's Growth Stats with Kimimaro this way we can actually use facts to determine if a ninja is a tank or not.

Roshi:
Life - 1748
Attack- 1153
Defense - 995
Ninjutsu - 1501
Resistance - 995

Kimimaro (posting 5 star first then the 4 star version):
Life - 2291
Attack - 1398
Defense - 1575
Ninjutsu - 522
Resistance - 1031

Life - 2100
Attack - 1282
Defense - 1443
Ninjutsu - 478
Resistance - 945

Since there is about a 100-200 growth difference, just take off say 200 for a 3 star variant.

Kimimaro is superior to Roshi as a tank with Roshi being squishier in the defense department. However Roshi would have more Resistance, but Kimimaro scales his resistance and defense. With Roshi being under 1k, I wouldn't classify him as a tank. He can't tank anything when he flat out dies to LM with buffs from other ninjas.

The argument wasn't against Kimimaro.
Please re-read.

Kimimaro scales, just as Roshi does. The only statement I've said to determined Kimmaro it would be "Roshi scales harder than Kimimaro" Which is factual as Kimimaro does 7-8%. Roshi's Ninjutsu/Defense is roughly at 12-13% based on values. Additionally, Roshi self-sustains.

Growths are absolutely great, and I would've used it as an argument point, but I felt like someone would use it and twist it. Thanks for doing the hard work!

So, let me put it this way to end this opinionated debate.

If Roshi survives T1, you've arguably got the best "bruiser/tank" in the game. As for "True tank" I'll remain with my opinion that characters with scaling Defense/Res are the best of that nature.

Kimimaro and Jirobo are the "true tanks", with Roshi being below them.

However, Gaara, Han, etc. They're not true tanks.

I know the argument wasn't against Kimimaro, its more of the fact he is considered a true tank vs someone like Roshi who can become a tank the longer he lives.

Also I didn't want to bring up how much they scale by because I didn't know how much Roshi scales. So thanks for that information!

First things first, if u mood Roshi 65% +life and you still die in round 1, then that just means you were outpowered by the opponent.

If you mood roshi to deal damage, then he can't really be counted as a tank.

Most teams utilize Roshi for dmg thinking his passive of stacking def and ninjutsu makes him a real tank. It doesn't.

Han on the other hand is a real tank, and you can see that his dps lacks when compare to roshi, which is why he is always paired mostly with water main for poison tai to make up for it.

uhhmm I kill about 11 lightning main average in SWB while being wind main, I don't see your point

and they are mostly the iruka,darui, WB asuma or mifune,kimi,gaara lineup