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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- Garv On 2017-10-23 23:21:46
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1: Roshi isn't a tank, it's a DPS that also have a stacking defense buff. If you consider him a tank you are mistaking a lot.
2: On par power true tanks like Kimimaro, Gaara Shippuuden or Han don't die in the right setups.
But that's incorrect.
Super Armor doesn't qualify someone as " True Tank". However, being unable to combo a ninja does reduce the overall normality of damage someone would take.
Roshi is a tank. Scaling defense makes it so, and his core weakness is the early game. However, if he survives, his absurd survivability is shown. Topping it with Immunity to combat debuffs. He's a true tank.
Additionally, characters with scaling defensive stats (Defense, Res) are tanks. Jirobo, Kimimaro. Etc.
You can say the exact same thing about Roshi "Won't die in the right setups"
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- Zelgadis~ On 2017-10-25 17:55:03
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Doesn't seem to me he implied in any way that super armor qualifies a ninja as a tank, infact he mentioned kimimaro (that doesn't own superarmor), gaara shippuuden and han, he didn't say ay or sasuke susanoo, he specifically talked about 3 real tanks one of them didn't even own super armor.
What qualifies a tank is not at all a stacking defense/resistance buff, but how much he is able to endure hits in every moment, also round 1 and 2, if equipped with the same equip another ninja c*e and roshi's basic stats, you can say what you want, qualify him as a dps, not as a tank. Roshi have relatively poor hp and comparable atk and ninjutsu with resistance and defense by default, how can you consider him a tank if even after 5 hits endured still owns less defense in comparison with a true tank like han or gaara normal and after he is mooded for hp owns 4-5k less hp than them?
For right setups he didn't mean 1 single only setup that requires one pay to win ninja, but a variety of setups. Roshi as a 'tank' survives ONLY if you mooded him for hp, put him in a +hp tactics square and if you run azure fang and hokage tsunade since, after all the shields removal ninjas we gained, he doesn't anymore survive in the immortal lineup with earth main if is in front row, on par power, if he is targeted directly, but who knows why han survives, even if for you he isn't a tank.
With your idea of tanks then han is not a tank, even if owns an evasion passive, a mystery that removes a ton of damage buff and super armor because don't own stacking defense or resistance, nor you seem to consider gaara one even if his basic hp, resistance and defense are high and he self gives shields every round.
And no roshi doesn't survive in any 'right' setup except the one i said or in han roshi azure fang sailor sakura one, where han that's a real tank endures half of his hits and reduces the damage output of the enemy, unless is behind another ninja or clone. So how can he be a tank if without a ton of shields he dies if he is comboed or hit in round 1 by almost only pure ninjutsu effects?
Or are you telling me that a roshi on front row targeted with masked man mystery in round 1 against the itachi susanoo, masked man, onoki, sb lineup survives if get hit also by itachi twice? because han survives.
Super Armor, Shield baring and standard dodge don't bare realistic consideration that a character is a "true tank". They're tanks, just not to the bone.
Gaara and Han require additional support to withstand a beating in the front. The only "real" tank that's used considerably is Roshi because he does the job quite well. But I'll rebuke your points.
Your first statement is contradicting to your later argument. Scaling Defense/Resistance makes anybody a tank. Hence why Hokage Buffs in GNW-Ranked battle is heavily valued, and why it's stapled to run Defensive Knowledge on Earth Main. 60% Resistance and 20% Defense can make even the squishy targets (Hokage Tsunade) durable.
Also no, Roshi has the highest ceiling in terms of Defense/Ninjutsu scaling, higher than Kimimaro. Either you haven't experienced higher level PvP Roshi's to compare or you're basing your points on a mute mode (Arena) to strengthen your value. If Arena is your ba
ses, Then sure! You're completely right about Roshi being a lightweight. But that's not his true values nor his ba se. It's artificially lower ba se states to compensate ninjas. With that out of the way to your next point. This is where I'll say your inexperience is completely showing. Roshi's best survivability mood is actually +Defense (You know, to cover his greatest weakness T1 being Blitz) and with Earth Main, he practically becomes unkillable T1 with a fully engraved LM blitz. And yes, I've faced stronger blitz comps to test this (103k BP vs 114k)
But like I said, if you're basing this on Arena, there's little to no argument to be made as I can't combat non-actual PvP
Just to wrap this up. Roshi's self-sustainability is apart of why he's considered a true tank. He's everything you want in a bruiser/tank. Ablities to take hits/deal damage/self sustain and punishment on hits. This kit is perfect for his role.
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
- Topics: 34
- Posts: 4320
- RenjiAsuka On 2017-10-26 01:20:09
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Just to compare Roshi's Growth Stats with Kimimaro this way we can actually use facts to determine if a ninja is a tank or not.
Roshi:
Life - 1748
Attack- 1153
Defense - 995
Ninjutsu - 1501
Resistance - 995Kimimaro (posting 5 star first then the 4 star version):
Life - 2291
Attack - 1398
Defense - 1575
Ninjutsu - 522
Resistance - 1031
Life - 2100
Attack - 1282
Defense - 1443
Ninjutsu - 478
Resistance - 945
Since there is about a 100-200 growth difference, just take off say 200 for a 3 star variant.
Kimimaro is superior to Roshi as a tank with Roshi being squishier in the defense department. However Roshi would have more Resistance, but Kimimaro scales his resistance and defense. With Roshi being under 1k, I wouldn't classify him as a tank. He can't tank anything when he flat out dies to LM with buffs from other ninjas.
The argument wasn't against Kimimaro.
Please re-read.Kimimaro scales, just as Roshi does. The only statement I've said to determined Kimmaro it would be "Roshi scales harder than Kimimaro" Which is factual as Kimimaro does 7-8%. Roshi's Ninjutsu/Defense is roughly at 12-13% ba
sed on values. Additionally, Roshi self-sustains. Growths are absolutely great, and I would've used it as an argument point, but I felt like someone would use it and twist it. Thanks for doing the hard work!
So, let me put it this way to end this opinionated debate.
If Roshi survives T1, you've arguably got the best "bruiser/tank" in the game. As for "True tank" I'll remain with my opinion that characters with scaling Defense/Res are the best of that nature.
Kimimaro and Jirobo are the "true tanks", with Roshi being below them.
However, Gaara, Han, etc. They're not true tanks.
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