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[ Other ] big issue with spacetime after merge

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  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 29
  • Posts: 2271
On 2017-05-17 03:38:24Show All Posts
11#
The point reset thing is... complicated.
Now, obviously it's not fair for it to be reset for the 4 servers that were merged up. But it would have also been unfair if they were not reset.
Fact is, being the 4 oldest server in your bracket, chances are you guys occupy a large chunk of the high ranked players, gathering a large amount of points. Let's say there 40 of the top 80 in your old bracket is composed of player from those 4 servers, which isn't unrealistic. Those 40 would, therefore, have more or less the same number of points as the player in the top 80 of the new bracket, in other words, more than the bottom 40 of the top 128 of the new bracket. And therefore, if you guys kept your points, you would have bumped 40 people or so off the top 128 in the new bracket, people, who by virtue of being in top 128 in a bracket where every server is older than yours, that are probably stronger than most of the 40. That would have been unfair too.

So whether you guys kept your point or not, if you guys gets moved a bracket, it will be unfair to somebody.

That said, this problem would have been mitigated if it was done at a different time.
First, if it was done at the start of a season, when everyone was "fresh" so a point reset does nothing. This would be ideal. Of course, this season's ranking battles overlapped with last season's final, and there might be logistical issues with being in the ranking of one bracket but the final of another. Thou I suspect that this is due to the fact that the feature was introduced in the middle of the month and will not be an issue in future seasons, each season being one month with half month of ranking and half month of final, no overlap needed.
Or, alternatively, if there are more days left to go, there could have been a reasonable solution. Give all players of your server a fixed amount of "starting points" that's equal to the point of the say 100th ranked (by point) player of the new bracket. This way, for however many days left, people would have a reasonable chance of fighting it out for the last 30 or so spots in the top 128 in the new bracket. This should reasonably select the best out of all the players in the new-new bracket for the final. While it's possible that of the movers, someone who could otherwise placed in the top 20 (via super ptw) is now merely a rank 90-100, fact is that all that matters is actually reaching the final and exact placement don't matter if you do, so all is well.
So timing could have solved so many problems.

That said, some player feels that moving a server to a different bracket is unfair in and of itself. Well, my opinion on this is "sort of". The part that is unfair, to me, is the whole mess it can create when it is done. However, fundamentally speaking, moving a server from top of one bracket to the bottom of another is fair. Fact of the matter is, no server really deserve to be always on the top or bottom of the bracket, having a server stuck in either position is what is truly unfair. If true fairness is to be concerned, the the bracket should shift every season so that the separation point is constantly changing so that no server, except the oldest server period, will ever always be on top or bottom. So you really shouldn't complain about shifting bracket, because all that does is show your own selfishness.

That said, given the problem that could come with shifting bracket, as evident by this episode, it really shouldn't be done unless Oasis had a watertight procedure that can be followed. As it is, this is an epic fail.

As far as "solving" the problem goes. Unless they can split the server, at least until end of the "season"(potentially post season), the best is probably handing out reasonable compensation to the 4 servers to the players who WERE in top 128, different comp depending on the exact ranking. Fact of the matter is, given the tiny amount of time left, there really is no truly fair way to solve the problem, as giving points to the player of the 4 servers so that they can get to 128 will certainly bump out others from the new bracket and there simply isn't time for the "system" to "right itself" so that only the truly qualified gets placed. So instead of bumping people from a lot more assorted server and spreading the problem in cascading failure fashion, limiting the damage to a fixed population in order to more easily hand out compensation is probably the better solution.
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 29
  • Posts: 2271
On 2017-05-20 03:35:21Show All Posts
18#
  • Garv On 2017-05-20 02:55:03
  • Just wanted to add another not nice thing i noticed today. We changed bracket also in matsuri challenge (I always suspected we had the same bracket as Spacetime, now is a proof). Don't you think this is a bit too much to endure for our four servers? Overall when I go to the previous thread where people ask to get merged and i don't see any requests from server 291 (just wanted to point out that all this mess comes out of the fact that you merged us with them)?

    This post was last edited by 988***@uf16 at 2017-5-20 03:09
No it's not (too much to endure etc)
What makes you guys entitled to being on the top of the bracket all the time?

Ideally, brackets should shift as often as possible so that any server that is on top of a bracket is also on the bottom half the time (minus the first server, since there are no older ones). Seeing as you guys have had the fortune of being on top of the masuri brackets for at least 2-3 months, there is really no grounds for you to complain until another 2-3 month passes with you on the bottom.

To be clear, their execution as far as space time is concerned is horrible. However, bracket shift in and of itself is fine, in fact it's more fair than w/o the shift. In fact, they should figure out ways to shift brackets ALL THE TIME (without f***ing up space time that is)
  • Registered: 2017-07-24
  • Topics: 29
  • Posts: 2271
On 2017-05-20 05:08:12Show All Posts
23#
  • Xerios87 On 2017-05-20 03:42:03
  • How nice to be called entitled by someone who has nothing to do in this and who actually has nothing to offer outside of empty words about the issue.

    But back to the point and to follow what you just said, what is fairness when it comes to S291 ? After all, they're still the "youngest" server in this bracket, nothing was done for them...
    As for the reality of the situation (which I suspect you don't know), the power gap between oldest and newest server is way more important in this particular bracket than it was in the previous. Actually, the winner of the previous bracket weren't from the merged servers.
    What people are asking for is an explanation about this (actually, it also means less people and less competition in the bracket that lost 4 servers and some of the most active ones). If it was voluntary or not and if the issue is reversible or not.

    We also want to know if we will receive any compensation about the lost season of strongest ninja (we had no chance to qualify in 2 days in a new bracket).
    This post was last edited by xer***@gmail.com at 2017-5-20 03:44 This post was last edited by xer***@gmail.com at 2017-5-20 03:45 This post was last edited by xer***@gmail.com at 2017-5-20 03:45
1. You should probably look up just a bit and see my previous post. I have a bit to offer in diagnosing the situation and proposing a feasible solution based on the diagnosis. Which is far more than what I can say about some of you who either make ridiculous demands or simply cry "fix dis" without offering any suggestions as to how.

2. Did you actually read my post or did you just jump off the wall as soon as I called an entitled kid entitled? I specifically said that it would be ideal for brackets to shift frequently. Maybe you did read but is unable to comprehend, but such a shift would mean that 291(and the merged server thereof) along with others that have been on bottom of their respective brackets will get a chance to be the top of bracket. As it were, if anyone were to complain, it's the people from 291 (and any other that was always stuck on bottom) but I'm fairly sure the one I replied to is not one of those. Conclusion? it was a post made out of entitlement and not fairness.

3. Are you aware that LA have a S14-599 bracket(I might got the end number wrong, simply speaking, it's everyone 14 and after)? I'm a strong proponent of that being split. Similarly, any excessively large bracket should be split. So yes, i am well aware of the situation. What I don't know thou is the exact population and activity of each bracket to justify a split. Personally, I consider about 300-500 ACTIVE players per bracket for space time should be optimal. (that said, it would make masuri matchmaking even worse, as there are fewer active player to match with which means more likely to have a large gap. Ideally, maybe each two time space bracket should share one masuri bracket or something like that, that might get complicated)

4. Of course the winner of a bracket doesn't always come from the oldest server of the bracket. This is, after all, a ptw game. And all that age gives you is an advantage to be in the mid-upper ranks, the top will be ptws, it almost doesn't matter which server that is as long as it's old enough for them to reach say lv 85 and get all their talents. You know what IS a good indicator of whether server age is advantageous? The proportion of active players from that server that qualified for the final (and top 64, 32. after 32 it's too ptw to be a significant factor). I wonder why you would assume others are making * assumptions, are those assumptions that you would make?

5. An explanation have already been given, thou very vaguely. What it comes down to is poor planning and lack of foresight.

6. Just about everything is reversible, thou it appears that they won't. But in any case, it's VERY doubtful that they can do anything in a time frame that will have significantly impact. I mean it takes weeks for them to hand out comp packages for bugs, how long do you think it would take for them to split a server, which they probably have no procedure/protocol of doing, even if they are willing to do it? I don't know why people bother asking about stuff that, if they were to apply their brain, are obvious.

7. As far as comp goes, I'd say they should but they are not forthcoming on that subject. Probably because the people who are actually in charge are dragging their feet and Tobei probably can't give a answer since he haven't heard back from the procrastinators. I'd wager there will be comp but it would be underwhelming thou.
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