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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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1＃ Go ToWhat exactly does Sand Dust cancel/remove?
So far, I've only seen this mystery remove shields and Root of Warrior.
Some of the buffs that are not removed:
Barriers
Healing Tip
Lightning Armor
Kimimaro:
Curse Tag - Second Stage
Stacked defence from Corpse Bone Chain - Willow Dance
* Update: Lightning Armor
Translation Error: Lightning Armor makes the ninja immune to debuffs instead of canceling existing debuffs.
Bug: Buff removing skills does not remove the 3 extra attacks granted by this Lightning armor. Only appears to removes the critical buff and the immunity.
This post was last edited by Eplox at 2017-5-8 05:32 -
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Barriers are not buffs, I don't think it evens remove the stat boost component as that's also not a buff, but rather an aura--the fact that an overriding barrier can remove it is a clear sign, buffs have a clear start and end and, buff removal ability like sand dust aside, will run its course. To have something that doesn't remove buff to be able to remove/deactivate a boost, that boost is not a buff.
I think Healing Tip is an aura. The distinction between aura and buff is that aura is never distinctly cast at the start of the battle. Another difference is that aura have no expiration time whereas buff usually wears off at some points, most common being 3 and 5 rounds thou some less (fairly sure none last over 5). Note I say I "think" Healing Tip is an aura is because I'm not sure if it is one, I know there are auras (as opposed to buffs) in the game, I'm just not 100% sure which ones are.
For Kimimaro, last I heard, it removes the stat gained from the abilities but not the ability themselves because... well... they are not buffs, cursed seal create buff but is not buff, so it can stack back up. Like aura, you can tell if something is a buff by seeing if it is ever "applied" at any given time. If it is applied either actively via casting(include start of round) or passively as a response to some trigger(like the curse seal stat boost), then it is buff. But if it is never applied, it is not a buff.
I do consider not removing the extra attack bit of the lightning armor a bug thou, I don't see how that can not be a buff. -
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- PraiseLuka On 2017-05-08 05:34:49
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Barriers are not buffs, I don't think it evens remove the stat boost component as that's also not a buff, but rather an aura--the fact that an overriding barrier can remove it is a clear sign, buffs have a clear start and end and, buff removal ability like sand dust aside, will run its course. To have something that doesn't remove buff to be able to remove/deactivate a boost, that boost is not a buff.
I think Healing Tip is an aura. The distinction between aura and buff is that aura is never distinctly cast at the start of the battle. Another difference is that aura have no expiration time whereas buff usually wears off at some points, most common being 3 and 5 rounds thou some less (fairly sure none last over 5). Note I say I "think" Healing Tip is an aura is because I'm not sure if it is one, I know there are auras (as opposed to buffs) in the game, I'm just not 100% sure which ones are.
For Kimimaro, last I heard, it removes the stat gained from the abilities but not the ability themselves because... well... they are not buffs, cursed seal create buff but is not buff, so it can stack back up. Like aura, you can tell if something is a buff by seeing if it is ever "applied" at any given time. If it is applied either actively via casting(include start of round) or passively as a response to some trigger(like the curse seal stat boost), then it is buff. But if it is never applied, it is not a buff.
I do consider not removing the extra attack bit of the lightning armor a bug thou, I don't see how that can not be a buff.
I see barriers as buffs. Lets take this example with Gaara's auto-barrier together with Sage Naruto.
If you wiggle SN and Gaara so SN goes first, his clone will be buffed by Gaara's barrier.
On the other hand, if Gaara use his barrier before SN spawns his clone, the clone won't get the benefits of the barrier.
EDIT* Thanks for explaining the aura part. makes sense.
This post was last edited by Eplox at 2017-5-8 17:35 -
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- Eplox On 2017-05-08 17:30:37
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I see barriers as buffs. Lets take this example with Gaara's auto-barrier together with Sage Naruto.
If you wiggle SN and Gaara so SN goes first, his clone will be buffed by Gaara's barrier.
On the other hand, if Gaara use his barrier before SN spawns his clone, the clone won't get the benefits of the barrier.
EDIT* Thanks for explaining the aura part. makes sense.
This post was last edited by Eplox at 2017-5-8 17:35
I'd say the barriers themselves are not buffs, mostly due to the fact that it can overriden by enemy barriers. I haven't seen any buff that behaves that way in any game.
That said, the stat boost provided by the barrier may or may not be buffs, it could be an aura of the barrier or a buff. This depends on a few things:
1. if the barrier is broken (in any way or form), does the stat boost remain(until its own expiration that is)? If it remains, it is a buff, otherwise it should be an aura provided by the barrier.
2. The clone bit you shown. Frankly, not every boost is displayed by the game, so it's hard to say whether the clone is or is not boosted. If it isn't boosted, then the thing should be a buff, if it is boosted but not shown, it is part of an aura.
Now, in theory #1 and #2 should be consistent with each other (either a buff or not) but... well... it might not be. And if it's not, I honestly don't really know whether it is a buff.
In another note I'm also not entirely sure what the categorization of hinata's passive is. Specifically, her passive doesn't give a triggered boost persay, but a condition boost where the bonus is based on her current health. If the bonus isn't considered a buff, all is well (thou that also show a stat gain animation like the barrier, stat gain thingy might have nothing to do with if it's a buff). If the bonus is considered a buff then... well... if it is removed when hinata is at 50% health, she loses another 10%, what amount of bonus def/res would she get? The amount equal to 10% lost health? 60% lost health? What if she is healed? What if she is healed and then damaged again? Personally, I think it would be easier to code and categorize as a self-aura type of thing but... yeah.. fun stuff to think about. (regular naruto have similar ability as well, and I think a few others. They are different from cursed seal as it's not stat gain per hit/trigger but ba sed on current health) -
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- PraiseLuka On 2017-05-09 04:34:54
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I'd say the barriers themselves are not buffs, mostly due to the fact that it can overriden by enemy barriers. I haven't seen any buff that behaves that way in any game.
That said, the stat boost provided by the barrier may or may not be buffs, it could be an aura of the barrier or a buff. This depends on a few things:
1. if the barrier is broken (in any way or form), does the stat boost remain(until its own expiration that is)? If it remains, it is a buff, otherwise it should be an aura provided by the barrier.
2. The clone bit you shown. Frankly, not every boost is displayed by the game, so it's hard to say whether the clone is or is not boosted. If it isn't boosted, then the thing should be a buff, if it is boosted but not shown, it is part of an aura.
Now, in theory #1 and #2 should be consistent with each other (either a buff or not) but... well... it might not be. And if it's not, I honestly don't really know whether it is a buff.
In another note I'm also not entirely sure what the categorization of hinata's passive is. Specifically, her passive doesn't give a triggered boost persay, but a condition boost where the bonus is based on her current health. If the bonus isn't considered a buff, all is well (thou that also show a stat gain animation like the barrier, stat gain thingy might have nothing to do with if it's a buff). If the bonus is considered a buff then... well... if it is removed when hinata is at 50% health, she loses another 10%, what amount of bonus def/res would she get? The amount equal to 10% lost health? 60% lost health? What if she is healed? What if she is healed and then damaged again? Personally, I think it would be easier to code and categorize as a self-aura type of thing but... yeah.. fun stuff to think about. (regular naruto have similar ability as well, and I think a few others. They are different from cursed seal as it's not stat gain per hit/trigger but ba sed on current health)
Did some number testing with barrier with sand dust and other buffs.
Kakashi:
Clone spawned before barrier: 2090, 2184, 2285, 2120, 2283
Clone spawned after barrier: 1620, 1475, 1483, 1589, 1477
PVP:
Clone with barrier: 654, 632, 624, 638
Clone with barrier + Sanddust: 638, 628, 623, 628
Clone without barrier: 456, 478, 447, 460
Clone with buff by Iruka, Temari 5kc: 601, 612, 592, 603
Clone with buff by Iruka, Temari 5kc + Sand Dust: 464, 451, 451, 448
Answer to your questions about barriers
1) If the barrier is broken by a friendly (with a different element) or non-friendly ninja, the damage buff is gone.
2) Clones will be boosted by barriers if they are summoned before the barrier is used.
Hidan has the same ability, where he does higher damage on low HP. I'd assume this is just a multiplier based on the ninjas HP. Not sure if it can be classified as a buff, aura or something else.. -
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- Eplox On 2017-05-09 05:31:36
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Okey, I can understand all of them except the Lightning armor.
What makes you say it's not a buff?
Sand dust removes the immunity and critical bonus, but not the extra granted attacks.
It's an awkward interaction.
For example, Killer Bee's additional attack does get removed by Sand Dust.
The explaination I have is simple. The immunity granted by Lightning Armor gets canceled by Sand Dust but that's it. Sand Dust =/= Lightning Armor. So the additional effects like Crit 15% and 3 Standard remain but they're able to be CC'd now.
I'll test it out to confirm. But it makes sense. -
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- Tobei On 2017-05-09 07:24:48
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It's an awkward interaction.
For example, Killer Bee's additional attack does get removed by Sand Dust.
The explaination I have is simple. The immunity granted by Lightning Armor gets canceled by Sand Dust but that's it. Sand Dust =/= Lightning Armor. So the additional effects like Crit 15% and 3 Standard remain but they're able to be CC'd now.
I'll test it out to confirm. But it makes sense.
What happens if you sand dust a lightning armor twice?
If you say the immunity is the thing that gets removed while protecting the others, if the immunity is gone, can the rest be removed after the immunity is gone? -
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- PraiseLuka On 2017-05-09 08:04:45
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What happens if you sand dust a lightning armor twice?
If you say the immunity is the thing that gets removed while protecting the others, if the immunity is gone, can the rest be removed after the immunity is gone?
A counter question would be, How'd you get two Sand Dusts?
Sand Dust 3CD
Lightning Armor 3CD
Now with characters like GNW Temari providing her Skill second, makes sense.
So, hypothetical, if you could use it twice on the same prompt Lightning Armor, would it remove the secondary effects, Yes. It would. There's no immunity to help his character and thus can be debuffed. So yes. -
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- Tobei On 2017-05-09 08:31:27
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A counter question would be, How'd you get two Sand Dusts?
Sand Dust 3CD
Lightning Armor 3CD
Now with characters like GNW Temari providing her Skill second, makes sense.
So, hypothetical, if you could use it twice on the same prompt Lightning Armor, would it remove the secondary effects, Yes. It would. There's no immunity to help his character and thus can be debuffed. So yes.
3 v 3.... it does happen you know... -
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- Registered: 2017-07-24
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I'm pretty sure skewering or mifune mystery remove the critical bonus gained by lightning armor (they work in the same way as sand dust) and also remove lightning enhancement/anbu special tactics/swordbearer boost, so even if darui/danzo barrier effect is still there their standard attacks get depowered a lot. About the more standard attacks i just tested it in arena. I used first skewering and then mifune on him. The standard attacks were still there (he was in position 4 for prompt move) -
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